Staggered sowing of 3 varieties of sweetcorn

[BertieFox]

That looks great and it's good to know it worked with five closely planted. I think I will be on the safe side and plant nine at the end of each bed. I will try giving them a good shake too when the male flowers are out.

[heirloomsquash]

Bohobumble how big are the squares divided the dowels in your picture of the three sisters.

[heirloomsquash]

three sisters spacing

besides the corn,beans,squash. the original intent of system to use all three for winter
use. Has any one tried adapting the system to use none climbing beans,bush squash, and sweet corn for fresh eating. If so, what spacing did use for each plant in the system and how wide did you make the planting to gain easy access so you could harvest.
I am think of 4 ft wide beds. but I like hear others experiences.
PS
Sorry for bring up a subject that has had numerous threads on subject in the past
I read the previous thread I have not found and answer to my question
and I did not think bumping up an old thread on this subject would get me the answers I was seeking.

[Kristen]

This was my first attempt growing sweetcorn so I don't know if this is variety specific (Swift F1), but I got on average 3 cobs from each plant

Looks like you planted 3 or 4 Corn plants only inches apart? did you thin them, or is the "3 cobs from each plant" from the group?

I don't think I have come across anyone that has reliably got more than 1 cob from Swift, let alone 3! Being dwarf they don't grow all that tall and I am surprised they had enough height for 3 cobs.

[Bohobumble]

Bohobumble how big are the squares divided the dowels in your picture of the three sisters.

I think the bamboo canes in the blog were 6 feet long if that helps?

[Bohobumble]

the original intent of system to use all three for winter
use. Has any one tried adapting the system to use none climbing beans,bush squash, and sweet corn for fresh eating. If so, what spacing did use for each plant in the system and how wide did you make the planting to gain easy access so you could harvest.

I read the same info, my intent was to eat fresh tho I did have some corn left at the end of the season which I dried, I'm not really fancying them now tho so I may use them to feed the bigger local birds over winter.

I didn't plant the sweetcorn direct, it was in cells in the mini greenhouse to kick start them off (except one didn't germinate so I direct sowed when planting out)

The mounds were per advice, so at least a pace apart (5xSC, 5x legume per mound). I didn't go with the rotting fish idea, but with home produced compost (one mound had bought compost as I ran out).

My allotment neighbour accidentally killed my squash (long story) so no squash in the end resulting in my adding in canes between the mounds for my excess peas and beans to grow up. One broad bean was in there too.

Harvesting was no issue as I could step into the plot close enough to each mound, the beans in the middle were two steps. The peas tho didn't survive more that a week with the rodents on my allotment.

Of course this was easier as there were no squashes in the way - again I would be interested to hear anyone else experiences on this point!

I have various kinds of squash/pumpkin/courgette this time around so I shall be seeing what happens with that this season - wish me luck!

[Bohobumble]

Looks like you planted 3 or 4 Corn plants only inches apart? did you thin them, or is the "3 cobs from each plant" from the group?

I don't think I have come across anyone that has reliably got more than 1 cob from Swift, let alone 3! Being dwarf they don't grow all that tall and I am surprised they had enough height for 3 cobs.

Hi Kristen,

I planted 5 sweetcorn plants in each mound of compost, they were interplanted with legumes a little while later. I guess the sweetcorn were maybe 9-10 inches apart in a + shape. The male bits at the top were about my height, what height do yours get? The packet destructions and reading up I did suggested to expect 2 per plant.

Most plants had 3 fat cobs on them; some 2, a few 4 (tho the bottom ones were smaller). I was giving them away and had some leftover. They had the benefit of compost and the legume nodules. The summer was fairly wet so perhaps that had a bearing too. My plot (in Bucks) is at the higher point of the allotments so it gets plenty of light, but can be windy so maybe thats why more were pollinated than usual?

I wouldn't dream of saying this was reliable, or repeatable, only a few years experience will tell me that. They were tasty tho, and low maintenance hence me trying again this year. With 3 varieties :s

Wish me luck!

[BertieFox]

Growing non climbing beans in the 3 sisters system is not likely to be successful as the point is that climbing beans use the corn as supports to grow above the squash plants which form a weed suppressing ground cover, which also retains moisture. It might have been a successful system for native Americans but not necessarily the best thing in the garden or allotment.

For example, I think a better use of space is to grow squash as a vertical cordon trained on an upright support. If you prune off the laterals rather than let them sprawl you can grow several squash in little more than a couple of feet.

Climbing beans are by far more productive over a prolonged period but for maximum yield in a short time, dwarf beans are better and you can clear them quickly after the first main flush and grow something else in the same spot.

Sweetcorn is delicious but very demanding of space and takes a long time between planting and harvest. That's why I'm looking at ways of staggering it and planting only a small amount in each location.

Has anyone tried peas around the base of sweetcorn plants and letting them clamber up the stems or are the water requirements for peas too high? Alternatively has anyone tried to use broad beans as the preceding crop and simply flattening and cutting down the foliage after harvest prior to planting or sowing corn in the same place. In theory the broad beans will provide nitrogen while the old foliage gives a thick mulch. You can clip off any regrowth quite easily. I have been watching some Youtube videos of American organic farmers who are growing corn with great success by sowing them direct through a flattened mixed cover crop of various green manures. So in principle this might work.

[Spunky]

Looks like you planted 3 or 4 Corn plants only inches apart? did you thin them, or is the "3 cobs from each plant" from the group?

I don't think I have come across anyone that has reliably got more than 1 cob from Swift, let alone 3! Being dwarf they don't grow all that tall and I am surprised they had enough height for 3 cobs.

I grew swift last year and had at least 2 cobs per plant the plants were about 6 foot tall maybe it was down to good weather

[Kristen]

The male bits at the top were about my height, what height do yours get?

Yup, "person height" would be about right for the "dwarf" cultivars - dwarf is probably the wrong word, they are bred to be shorter than normal Maize (2.5M / 8' norm) type originals so that they start producing cobs lower down the stem, and get the job done in an English summer

I've had more success with Lark than Swift, and reliably got 2 cobs this year, so maybe it was a particularly good season as spunky said?

Interesting about your PLUS layout for planting.

Personally I don't think 3-sisters is as successful in this country as in the States, particularly on their poorer land where wider spacing then benefits all three varieties. I am interested in two-sisters though, planting Squash on the perimeter and letting the sprawl through the corn. By the time the corn is done the Squash are getting into their stride of foliage and can take over the space.

[Spunky]

I was thinking of trying it too but maybe the other way round with peas instead of beans, does squash really suppress weeds? I'm in my first year at my allotment and I'm not sure if I'd be getting more weeds than you're average plot!
Also can you plant peas with corn do you think it would work it's quite a tall variety 1.8m, I'm not sure if they would grab hold of the corn or just flop over maybe add some canes amongst the corn?

[alldigging]

I was thinking of trying it too but maybe the other way round with peas instead of beans, does squash really suppress weeds?

No. Squash doesn't suppress weeds, it does actually make them easier to hide until they're ready to seed and that is then a bigger issue.

[Bill HH]

I grew swift last year starting them off in a large container in the poly. When they were 8 to 12 inches high I put the container outside for a while prior to planting. My Springer spaniel ate every single one in one day. That meant starting again but this time direct sown with an anti dog fence round them.. I still had one or two excellent cobs off each plant and apart from eating a couple fresh I froze every one unblanched within minutes of picking. I am still eating them now and they are the best cobs I have ever tasted, very sweet. I am fussy about taste and have to say the frozen ones are every bit as good as the fresh.
I will use swift again this year without a doubt.

I cant see much advantage in growing different varieties to extend the season given that they freeze so well. But I can see lots of risk due to cross pollination.

[Alison]

No. Squash doesn't suppress weeds, it does actually make them easier to hide until they're ready to seed and that is then a bigger issue.

Depends on your weeds, some types are definitely weakened due to the lack of light but others will always find a way through even if they have to wait their time

[Kristen]

does squash really suppress weeds?

Dunno if it is an option? but Squash will happily sprawl over woven weed suppressing membrane like Mypex ... or Cardboard ex-large boxes.