Bitter truth of clean plot...

[zazen999]

I've read a lot about the use of glyphosate thank you.
The article you have supplied a link to does not in any shape or form conclude that plants can take up glyphosate as a pre emergent herbicide which is the point I was making and the logic seems to have gone over the heads of a few.
I wouldn't advise drinking glyphosate nor would I advice drinking white spirit or washing up liquid but pleeeeese understand the nature of the herbicide and how it works.

If its so harmless then pleeeeeeese do expand on why the studies are kept sooooooo seeeecret.

[zazen999]

I am not professing to understand all the issues that are being raised here. However, Glyphosate/Roundup is a "poison" as it is used to kill plants. It may work by contact with vegetation but some of this "poison" will inevitably fall upon the soil. Until someone can assure me 100% that this has NO effect on the soil, then it is a contaminant. It is Guilty until proven innocent.
You can argue the rights and wrongs of its use until you are blue in the face, but none of that stuff will ever cross my doorstep - and I am not the only one who feels this way.

It is magic. As soon as it realises its on soil, it just snaps its fingers and disappears. In a puff of smoke.

[LincolnshireFloyd]

If its so harmless then pleeeeeeese do expand on why the studies are kept sooooooo seeeecret.

The research is not secret that says glyphosate is not a pre emergent herbicide. It's stated in just about every research article I have read.

[LincolnshireFloyd]

It is magic. As soon as it realises its on soil, it just snaps its fingers and disappears. In a puff of smoke.

So prove that it is taken up by plants pre emergent and earn yourself a phd or a knighthood or nobel prize or something.

[AkionTotocha]

Well, I would say, in terms of "if you can spray soil with Glyphosate then eat any crops that grow from said soil" - then yes, you can.

If Glyphosate goes into a plant - it kills it. It doesn't break down into anything that's harmful to (any) life without killing it completely. If Glyphosate goes into a fish, it kills it. If the fish is still alive after Glyphosate exposure, it didn't get any Glyphosate in it. Because Glyphosate kills things.

However, the soil condition in terms of micro life and even worms will be terrible. Those lives will return to the garden properly after a few seasons. Because if Glyphosate falls on the surface of the soil it will only be in the few top mm of surface. Below that the micro life will be higher and higher. But I would still incorporate organic materials that are rich in life. Horse or Cow manure will be great for the soil. High in micro life and composed of (former) vegetation.

If you really want to be Glyphosate free, dig out the first foot/half foot of the free space you have and throw in the manure (Perhaps with compost I guess. I don't know, I'm just writing from a bio chemical point of view)

Also, grow very watery vegetables, then throw them out. This will clear your soil of any traces, just in case they didn't use Glyphosate. (But they probably did.)


TL;DR:

You can eat any crops that grow - they will be Glyphosate free.

If you care about the soil life as well as your stomach (Although that will also help your plants grow) add horse or cow manure.

(But I wouldn't eat them for the first year. The one time I needed to use Glyphosate it got injected with a hypodermic needle.)

[Zenithtb]

To put myself in the crossfire, I'm with Lincolnshire on this. Like many other things, it needs a living host. If it falls on the ground, it (so says all research) biodegrades. It cannot live outside of the plant.

Now, on the other side, I am suspicious of all *killer type things. But with my invasive weed issues, I have (had) to use Glyphosate. I tried for 1 3/4 years to hand remove my sedge, with minimal impact at all. I would not be able to use my land at all for anything besides grass if I did not use it. See my previous posts of my problems dating back nearly two years.

So I did a lot of research beforehand. It's classified as an organic weedkiller (crops grown in land sprayed with Glyphosate can be classified as Organic). It breaks down on soil surfaces within four hours. You can plant in soil sprayed with it in four hours.

It may not be Angel Dream Topping, but a poisonous beast I have yet to see any evidence of...

[Pineberry]

The following link provides info about the opposite to the claimed safety aspects of this chemical

Monsanto's Toxic Herbicide Glyphosate: A Review of its Health and Environmental Effects

I am certainly will never use this stuff on my plot. But I cannot not change the mind of the owners on neighbouring plots who enjoy its power.

[zazen999]

So prove that it is taken up by plants pre emergent and earn yourself a phd or a knighthood or nobel prize or something.

I am agreeing with you - it it the only chemical that disappears upon contact with the ground. Amazing stuff.

[Linzy]

Well i would say if its been sprayed you are not going to get a crop....cause it will be dead. So anything that comes up will be safe to eat. My dad is a farmer and according to the defra booklet weed killers once its rained are pretty much dilute to nothing unless you use trade products but you have to have a license to buy them and its expensive to go on the course so i doubt very much any of your fellow allotmenteers will be using that stuff.

[SarzWix]

It's getting to the point where glyphosate and Round-up could become banned words on this forum As far as I'm concerned, people have the right to be worried about its use on their plot and refuse to use it, without being ridiculed as 'melodramatic', just as other people have the right to use it where they see no other alternative. None of us can prove it to be absolutely safe, or absolutely not, because of the way data/formulations are obscured by the manufacturing companies, and so we all use our own judgement. What we can rely upon, however, are manners and respect, so lets exercise them please.

[bearded bloke]

Yep,the best advice regarding the original post occurred on page one ................

You may not think it was an ideal way to clear the plot - but it's done now.

Everything you do now can only help the soil, and the food is as safe to eat as stuff grown for the shops!
Next year everything will be a lot better

That ^^ covers it all really

[Two_Sheds]

I am quite upset by the weedkiller use. I would prefer to live with weeds instead of this poison.

Well, you have my sympathy. Someone repeatedly sprays my flower/shrub border, as "weed control".
Nobody owns up to it, and it's done very early in the morning or late at night, ie in secret.


There is a section of the community who hate organic growers and rather than letting us just get on with it peacefully, they like to assert their control by spraying weedkiller on our plots. It's their little bit of power. They like to make everyone else as miserable as they are themselves.

In case you have someone like that on your plot, I wouldn't make a song n dance about it: just quietly get on with your gardening from now on.
Hopefully, your committee just think they've done you a kindness, and it'll be left at that. Don't kick up a stink: you can't convince people who've been spraying weedkiller for donkey's years that there's an alternative. You just can't.

Crack on, keep your head down, and enjoy your garden.

[Zenithtb]

Yeah. I am someone 'on the fence'. If no other method seems to be working, I'll use it. I don't spray it everywhere willy-nilly. Only on the densest areas. And only on the invasive weeds I can't control otherwise. 'Normal' weeds (those blown in by the wind) get the usual Pull or Dig them out, or hoe them to the ground.

My problem is mostly 'under control' now, so I think this season will be the last one I 'have' to use it. But I know I would not have managed to do this any other way. Having to lift all the paths because the thousands of rhizomes under them was getting depressing. Now when a load appear, they get a spray.

Will I be using Glyphosate next year? Probably not. I hope not.

Why not if it's so safe? Well, like others have said - you never know. And it's cheating. Any solution that's so quick and easy is suspicious

Having said that, I'm (so far) glad I used it. Maybe it's like most things - in moderation it's OK. Use it too much and you could end up with problems...

[LincolnshireFloyd]

It's getting to the point where glyphosate and Round-up could become banned words on this forum As far as I'm concerned, people have the right to be worried about its use on their plot and refuse to use it, without being ridiculed as 'melodramatic', just as other people have the right to use it where they see no other alternative. None of us can prove it to be absolutely safe, or absolutely not, because of the way data/formulations are obscured by the manufacturing companies, and so we all use our own judgement. What we can rely upon, however, are manners and respect, so lets exercise them please.

I assume this is directed at me. Thanks. If this is a discussion forum then questioning emotional responses without objective evidence is rational debate isn't it? Anyway I had no intention of offending anybody but when somebody uses the word 'poison' in the context that it would be poisonous to eat crops grown later from glyphosate sprayed soil then that is misleading and it requires some sort of published objective evidence and as far as I am aware there isn't any because it is not a pre emergent herbicide which is the point I have been trying to make. I thought I was being quite kind only using the word melodramatic actually. But if it's unacceptable then I apologise.

[SarzWix]

No, it was directed at everyone. If I was only addressing you I would have PMed you.