Do you understand strike action?

[HeyWayne]

Perhaps it's the world we live in because nobody will stand up for themselves anymore? Except the unions.

I'm not being argumentative with you Wayne, but I can see both sides.

No no, didn't think you were being argumentative.

There's standing up for yourselves, and there's downright belligerence.

Having now read a bit about why the strike is happening I'm finding it even more difficult to understand the strike action.

As I understand it, the main beef that the CWU has is down to a document that both parties signed and agreed to back in 2007. The CWU concedes that RM has kept up it's end of the bargain on three of the four parts.

The CWU has a problem with the fourth and final part - on how the modernisation plans will effect jobs.

The CWU has always accepted that jobs would need to be lost as the company modernised, but says it was not told any specific details about the changes in 2007.

2007 was a very different place!

Any organisation, in order to survive must consider it's stakeholders. The fact that RM's stakeholders have increasingly been seeking alternatives should tell them something. By striking, surely the CWU are compounding the damage that is causing the RM finding itself in difficulty.

Since 2007, the company has continued to lose business to rivals, and its mail volumes are shrinking by approximately 10 per cent each year. Every one per cent drop costs the company about £70m in lost revenue.

By striking, surely all they are doing is speeding up the innevitable.

If the RM operated in a truly competitive environment I'd wager they'd be dead in the water by now. If there was a realistic alternative would the CWU be suggesting strike action? I doubt it very much.

[bobleponge]

Having spent all my working life in areas that didnt allow a union, I am probably like most people outwith the unions, I dont really understand strike action. I do, however, support the right for people to vote with their feet if they arent happy with their pay and conditions, and the right to strike if they feel they arent getting paid what they feel is their worth.
I think that in the UK (admittedly, this comes from minimal knowledge) the mindset is better than in France at least. In the UK, there is discussion before going out on strike. Over here, they go on strike first and then talk later. The unions are much stronger in France, I would imagine akin to the dark days of the late 70's in the UK, when the unions were (dare I say?) too powerful.
A very good friend of mine is a fireman, and a reasonably militant one at that, and when they were on strike 5 or so years ago, he couldnt see that the general population were disgusted with what they were doing, nor that he had the choice to be a fireman, I think the statistic was that for every fireman, there were 3 people wanting to do the job.
I have never been on strike, and never would, not at all in my nature, I wouldnt even join a union if I had the choice, but I would defend the right of the worker to go on strike if s/he felt it was the only option.
Probably hasnt helped you understand anything HW, but at least I gave vent.

[Bigmallly]

Since 2007, the company has continued to lose business to rivals, and its mail volumes are shrinking by approximately 10 per cent each year. Every one per cent drop costs the company about £70m in lost revenue.

By striking, surely all they are doing is speeding up the innevitable.

I wonder how many posties, firemen, binmen "Actually" want to strike & not been pressured by the unions. I can't see how this action is going to secure their jobs with the exception of the fireman who always tend to strike around bonfire night......

[Rhona]

If the RM operated in a truly competitive environment I'd wager they'd be dead in the water by now. If there was a realistic alternative would the CWU be suggesting strike action? I doubt it very much.

Salient points, and a view probably shared by many.

[pigletwillie]

Eighty years ago, unions were a boon and allowed the average working class man to move from poorly paid, dangerous working conditions into safer and better paid situations. Things like holiday pay, sickness benefits etc were all granted through the endeavour of enlightened folk of the time.

Unfortunately the tail is now trying to wag the dog, the miners tried to topple a government and destroyed much faster their own industry, Unions did it to British Leyland, and now the posties are doing it. Ancient practices cannot continue if a business is to survive, especially not ones whose business is shrinking by 10% each year thanks to the internet and fax etc.

Is it me or do all the union leaders, whilst generally calling themselves socialists, get paid and live like a old style soviet elite and can afford to sabre rattle to justify their positions as it does not cost them a penny, its the posties who are the ones losing pay just before Christmas. People in the main do not support such action any more and the more peoples lives get dirupted, the more people do not like it.

Please union leaders, get out of politics and start looking after your members interests, even if it means changing working practices to ensure people keep their jobs.

[pigletwillie]

What I find it hard to understand is how the postmen can be expected to work unpaid in what should be their free time - ridiculous.

I do, and dont forget for many years posties have gone home once their round was finished even if it was before they had worked a full shift.

Cake and eating it comes to mind.

[Bigmallly]

Who's next for the soapbox, my knees are killing me getting on & off it............

[OverWyreGrower]

I think I have the same viewpoint as a lot of Grapes. I am (luckily) in a job with good working conditions, pay etc.

However, in this job and previous jobs - if I didn't like the pay, conditions etc, I had 2 choices - stay or go.

I currently consider myself to be fortunate to still have a job, with no threat of redundancy etc on a decent wage. Would I ever jeopardise that?? Not a chance!

There is a strong union presence (3 of them!) in this job, and I deal with them on a regular basis. FWIW, I find the 'leaders' to be completely barking. They genuinely have no concept of real life, the world outside this sector or the economic situation. They are rude, aggressive and can't understand why management don't take them seriously when they scream and shout and bang things on tables in normal meeting situations.

[OllieMartin]

I could appreciate people striking if their working conditions or treatment was poor. I can't however, truly appreciate striking over pay.
No-one is ever paid 'enough'. What i mean by that is, I've never met anyone who would turn down a pay raise on the grounds that they 'didn't need the money'. I regularly have conversations with co-workers about contentment with their salary and I end up asking them the question "How much is enough money?", there is no answer, because very few people live to less than their means.
So if they strike, and are then paid more, will that solve all their problems? Will they work, content for the rest of their lives. I doubt it.

If i've missed the point, please feel free to rebuke me. Just my 2 cents.

[Alison]

I could appreciate people striking if their working conditions or treatment was poor. I can't however, truly appreciate striking over pay.

What about strikes which are brought about by disparity in the pay for peopel doing the same job. That's not greedy, it is simply fair. We all have the right to have a fair days pay for a fair days work. Obviously the definition of fair pay will vary but it should be seen to be fair.

Yes I know this will never be the case 100% but that doesn't mean that as society we shouldn't endeavor to be fair.

[OllieMartin]

What about strikes which are brought about by disparity in the pay for peopel doing the same job. That's not greedy, it is simply fair. We all have the right to have a fair days pay for a fair days work. Obviously the definition of fair pay will vary but it should be seen to be fair.

Yes I know this will never be the case 100% but that doesn't mean that as society we shouldn't endeavor to be fair.

I worked for 4 years in a call centre in Hull. The reason our company had 5 times as many call centres in the north than the south was because you can pay people less up here.
My family couldn't believe how little I was being paid for the job I did, but I never minded as I just cracked on with the work and could survive on what I got. I always knew that if I worked hard enough I could slowly earn more and more and sure enough I managed 8 salary increases in the 4 and a half years I worked there. Sadly I was made redundant in April. I found it interesting that all my colleagues there, who used to complain about the conditions and/or pay, would continually reminisce about how good it was after they were made redundant.

I agree with equal pay for equal work, but sadly it's very hard, nay impossible to evaluate what is 'equal work'. Most people I've spoken with believe they're over-worked and under paid.

Again, I'm not particularly well informed regarding the postal service situation so feel free to correct me.

[SarzWix]

The Big Question: What is the postal strike all about – and how will it affect the mail market? - Business Analysis & Features, Business - The Independent

New Statesman - The postal strike is our strike

A couple of different views of the postal strike. Two of the points that stand out to me are; Royal Mail would be more profitable, and able to secure jobs, if they weren't being forced to keep the prices lower than their average European counterparts, and, post workers are objecting to a major change in their pensions as well as the threatened loss of yet more jobs in the industry.
As people have said, the working conditions that they are being faced with are similar to those that a lot of private sector workers. But, if we get to the point that nobody is objecting to these conditions being the norm, aren't we sending ourselves down the road towards complete exploitation of all workers? The UK already has a terrible record on things like working hours compared with our European neighbours, and the fact that somebody is prepared to fight this slide, I believe, should be applauded and supported, before we find ourselves like the exploited workers of Asian countries, and our own downtrodden ancestors.

[Bigmallly]

the fact that somebody is prepared to fight this slide, I believe, should be applauded and supported, before we find ourselves like the exploited workers of Asian countries, and our own downtrodden ancestors.

Like the Miners & Steelworkes did ?.........

[SarzWix]

Like the Miners & Steelworkes did ?.........

The miners and steelworkers were attempting to prevent the wholescale destruction of those industries. The fact that they failed, doesn't mean that they shouldn't have fought, does it?! It won't be long before the oil situation means that both will have to be revived (in fact the coal industry is already seeing something of a revival)

[Snadger]

I worked for 4 years in a call centre in Hull. The reason our company had 5 times as many call centres in the north than the south was because you can pay people less up here.
My family couldn't believe how little I was being paid for the job I did, but I never minded as I just cracked on with the work and could survive on what I got. I always knew that if I worked hard enough I could slowly earn more and more and sure enough I managed 8 salary increases in the 4 and a half years I worked there. Sadly I was made redundant in April. I found it interesting that all my colleagues there, who used to complain about the conditions and/or pay, would continually reminisce about how good it was after they were made redundant.

I agree with equal pay for equal work, but sadly it's very hard, nay impossible to evaluate what is 'equal work'. Most people I've spoken with believe they're over-worked and under paid.

Again, I'm not particularly well informed regarding the postal service situation so feel free to correct me.

I think companies are tending to ship out there call centre jobs to Bombay so they can find away around the minimum wage restrictions in this country. They employ poor buggers on tuppence happeny an hour whose speech you can't make head nor tail of!