Anybody involved in Winemaking?

[madderbat]

Just had some talk with Mr MB who brought it to my attention that each harvest contains variable sugars, so really I should be SG-ing the brew BEFORE I add sugar, and vary accordingly (which I haven't been doing due to mathematical lack of confidence so far). Will try that in future if I remember -brain like a sieve these days, but can follow the recipe thank goodness.

[Digger-07]

Come to this thread a bit late but I think that not adding so much sugar will lower the alchahol content of the finished wine. If it's too low the wine will not keep well. Not too much of a problem in our house because nothing needs to have a long shelf life before it is eaten or drunk.

[Brewer-again]

sugar content

Hi ! Madderbat,
I will try and come up with a formula showing the amount of sugar required to add to the must with a table of expected results. It is the sort of mind numbing thing I can get into. Will aim at the 10-20% alcohol finished brew.

The reason for not measuring the SG of most brews is that most things we brew in the UK have very little or a predictable amount of sugar. Except for my blackberry which was strong and quite sweet (and free) I love it! .

Think about the normal produce we brew with. Parsnips any neeps, pea pods and marrows all are low in sugar, apples and pears also low in sugar. Most grapes produce fairly low sugars in the Uk. Things need to taste sweet, such as early blackberries before you need to adjust your sugar.

Worth a thought that Hydrometers are temperature dependent, so if you are in a kitchen for instance that measures above 15 C the reading of the Hydrometer could be off by as much as four points.

[madderbat]

measuring SGs

Come to this thread a bit late but I think that not adding so much sugar will lower the alchahol content of the finished wine.

That's the idea Digger, my blackberry was hitting 18% which is a bit much really!

Hi Brewer-again
I think you may be right, and it's the blackberrys that are the real problem, although the apple went well, but that could have been a warm hydrometer as you say - I'd forgotten that bit, althogh CJJ says you should add .9 at 20C, so it wouldn't make them any less!!

Given the summer we had and the amount of sunshine it's not surprising that the blackberrys stored sugar, and as I've only got enough left for one more berry brew, I'll have a go at measuring it first (bit more complicated straining into a bucket, SG-ing it and then pouring it over the sugar. Shouldn't be too hard).

I'd be grateful for some assistance with working out sugar as CJJ is a bit unclear on that. I can understand some of pp80-83, in First Steps, but get confused when he tries to describe the tables.

What does "volume of 1 gallon with sugar added mean?" and why don't the figures in the table seem to relate to what he describes in the writing?

eg to make 12% alcohol,
an initial sg of 1090 is necessary -ok
Sugar at 1090 = 2.6 -ok that's what is needed.
initial SG = 1040 so sugar = 1.1 already in it - ok
therefore sugar added should equal 1lb 5 oz - Yes??
but he says to then "make the quantity up to 1 gallon with more juice of the same dilution... what does that mean?? I though I already had 1 gallon.
Am I being obtuse, or just tired?
Can you elucidate please.
many thanks

[Brewer-again]

ccj ??

Guess who has not got CCJ's book, but I do have many others which may well prove useful. Will sit down in the daylight and get back to you tomorrow.

[madderbat]

Guess who has not got CCJ's book, but I do have many others which may well prove useful. Will sit down in the daylight and get back to you tomorrow.

Appreciate the effort. Thanks. speak to you again.

[Brewer-again]

volume of solution, the solution!

Hi! Madderbat,
Think it all revolves around, volume of must/juice with sugar added = 1 gall.
When you add the granulated sugar to the juice/must or liquer, it will increase in volume by 1 3/4 pts for every 3 lb of sugar you add.
I thought I had read in one of your earlier post (I do take an interest ) that you are often left with some over and no brewing container, this could be why.
One result of reducing the amount of juice, so that you end up with 1 gall after adding the required amount of sugar, is that it will finish even stronger, so be careful.
This is also why he says make it up to 1 gall, with the same juice after the sugar is added as there can be a shortfall when adding the sugar by weight.

So, 6 pints juice + 3lb 7 oz sugar makes 1 gallon.
Hope this answers your post

[madderbat]

Solution solutions..

Thank you so much, that makes perfect sense.

I was following his recipes and not allowing for the quantity of liquid in the fruit, let alone the volume of sugar. No wonder they came out so well!!!

I am getting a little more confident about SGs and things (didn't bother at all to start with). My latest blackberry had an initial SG of 1.80 which, according to CJJ will produce a wine of less than 12%. I still have 1 1/2l extra though, but it's fermenting nicely next to the cooker in a plastic bottle! Quite amusingly the bottle top - not tight- is bobbing up and down just like an airlock

The parsnip I've started last week did say to measure the liquid before adding sugar, and I did that so only have 1 gallon (I think - it's still in the bucket !)

One bit of news though, When i SG'd my pear it came out at 9.51% so I decanted tonight it as it has been going for a fortnight and the lees looked quite thick. I put the lees into a jam jar, and having swirled them around (as I am still saving the yeast) they have frothed up tremendously, so decided to put them back as they were obviously living, but they had sunk to the bottom.

I accumulated about one ounce of yeast over Christmas and kept it in the fridge, then made a loaf with it last weekend which was delicious.

My 'vinegar' pots are not in crocks in the dark (yet) but in covered jam jars and one is beginning to grow a 'mother' on top and smell a bit vinegary, but has not affected the wines.
All in all I'm quite pleased with myself and very grateful for all your help. Wish I could let you have a bottle but I'm not sure they would post!

Happy brewing and thanks so much,

[Brewer-again]

sludge in the bottom

Hi! Madderbat
Thanks for the offer of a posted bottle but am happy with the post here. The sludge at the bottom of your wine was mostly dead yeast and fruit solids, if left in the wine it will make it taste 'mousey'. Most of the working yeast is in suspension, which is why you can rack off the clear wine and it still keeps going. When it settles again I would rack it off.

What is this about vinigar pots, have not seen this here before. Cider and wine viniger is supposed to have many health benifits but I would keep it well away from your brewing area/room. It could ruin every thing you have worked hard to acheive

[madderbat]

Hi! Madderbat
What is this about vinigar pots, have not seen this here before. Cider and wine viniger is supposed to have many health benifits but I would keep it well away from your brewing area/room. It could ruin every thing you have worked hard to acheive

I thought we had some discourse about this before (perhaps on another thread - or I could be travelling in a time warp!)

Found it.
It was on the Mangel wine thread when I got all my threads mixed up and was excitedly talking about wine, vinegar and sourdough all at the same time.

We agreed then that they should be kept separate, and it seems to be working, but I haven't got a vinegar crock yet, so have some in jam jars with lids on. Seems to be working though. I'm using the lees and straining the yeast off, cooking bread with the yeast and leaving the rest to become vinegar after adding small amount of acetic acid. Quite productive I think, if slightly bizarre

[Brewer-again]

Vinigar, in this thread !

Hi! Madderbat
Found the previous thread, I was worried about mixing wine and vinigar then
Did you ever try making Balsamic Vinigar? it's very expensive to buy so well worth a try.
Flobadob, never really answered you post about sweet wine. I would blend but if the wine has stopped early then there is a method to restart your wine.
The idea is to make up another yeast starter with warm water sugar and yeast, leave it for a day to get going then add the same quantity of your stopped wine to the starter. Leave a day or two untill it is going well then add same quantity of wine to it again. The idea is to double the amount of stopped wine each time you add it to the starter. Eventually you should have a working brew. There will be some dead yeast from when it stopped so the sooner it is racked off the better, once it is going well.

[madderbat]

Hi! Madderbat
Found the previous thread, I was worried about mixing wine and vinigar then
Did you ever try making Balsamic Vinigar? it's very expensive to buy so well worth a try.

Hi Brewer-again
That was the idea, eventually to make some good quality wine vinegars (although OH claims he doesn't like it, he enjoyed Balsamic). I understand that you need to boil and reduce wine vinegar and leave for years to get a good balsamic, but haven't got that far yet as I only have a small quantitiy of red wine vinegar. Will explore over time. best wishes and thanks for your help
Happy brewing.

[Brewer-again]

balsamic vinigar

Hi! Madderbat
It would seem that store bought balsamic is made by reducing grape juice by boiling. Usually reduced by a third by boiling then stored in wood where it turnes to a thick sweet complex vinegar.

A modern alternative could be to reduce grape or other fruit juices by boiling to create a syrup, then store in glass or plastic with wood added. The wood used depends on the individual balsamic producer.

Anyway, back to wine but relevant.

I was given a wine kit which had a small bag of oak shavings which you added to the brew and I have to say, when finished it cleared well and tasted like a chardonney that had been stored in oak, I was very surprised.

[madderbat]

sounds interesting. I think I might go for a walk in the woods, especially after all this wind!n

[Brewer-again]

Walk in the woods

Hi ! Madderbat,
Trees to look out for in your wanders are Oak, cherry,ash,chestnut and juniper. These appear to be the most popular woods used for balsamic barrels. Let me know how it turns out??
Happy wandering