Saving seed from F1 varieties

[veggiechicken]

Cuttings should retain the parent properties as they are a vegetative propagation technique...........

How did you manage to reply in so few words?

[Snadger]

..............so F1 leeks or onions will throw up F1 grass or pips/pods but not seeds.

[Martin H]

How did you manage to reply in so few words?

There may be few of them, but they are very long ones!

[Snadger]

How did you manage to reply in so few words?

Waffle becomes an art form after a while!

[Thelma Sanders]

Cuttings stay true, if you can keep the plant alive til the next year. It certainly works for tomatoes and peppers.
Many of us are keeping Crimson Crush tomato cuttings alive over winter, to grow this summer - as the seeds are quite expensive.

[Ryleh]

Out of interest is there any degradation with cuttings over successive years?

For example, lets just assume %100 success rate in keeping the cutting alive each winter, if you took a cutting from a plant last year then grow it on, then later this year take a cutting of that to grow on next year and so on and so on. In say 10 years would you still have a viable plant or would the quality have suffered and progressively degraded?

[Thelma Sanders]

That depends on how successful the cuttings are, if they root well they'll be strong - if not you end up with a plant that is weaker. If the cuttings root perfectly then there's no reason for any deterioration.

[Scarlet]

Cuttings should retain the parent properties as they are a vegetative propagation technique...........

Very true...that question came up in my sons GCSE biology exam! He came out very thankful that him Mum fills the windowsils with cuttings

[Penellype]

A very interesting read Penellype, it answered a couple of questions I had regarding off spring of F1 plants.

Presumably even if you get lucky after the first year and get offspring identical to the F1 the chances of then doing the same again year after year become exponentially slim.

The chances are extremely slim in the first place, but if you did manage to get something identical to the F1 parents, your chances of doing the same again would be the same as before. This is something that is not easily understood - if you have a 1 in 2 chance of getting heads from a coin toss, your chances of getting heads remains 1 in 2 even if you have just thrown 10 tails in a row. The probability is reset for every throw.

[Snadger]

I think plants grown from cuttings year on year will suffer and plant vigour will degenerate over a period of time (years)
They could pick up virus from aphids and suchlike. I know that the reason seed tatties (which are another solanum, and related to the tomato) are grown in Scotland and considered to be virus free is because there are less aphids there.
Having said all that there were a couple of tomato varieties which have been grown from cuttings for a good few years on my allotment site.

Going back to leeks, I know that leek reversion can occur and every now and again the leek growers have to repopulate there stock from seed rather than bulbils.

As another experiment I have leeks growing from 'grass' but also leek seedlings grown from seed harvested from the same leek head. It will be interesting for me to see the difference!

Waffle over for now!

[spamvindaloo]

If you have loads of space and loads of time (and possibly loads of money), you could sow loads of F2 seeds (saved from F1 plants) and you might get 1 plant which produces a wonderful end product. If you then save every seed from the F2 and plant the F3 seeds, you may get the same (or even better). Repeat the process until the seed stabilises. It's not that it can't be done, it's just that you might grow ten thousand plants and produce nothing but rubbish. Much easier just to buy a packet of seeds (even if they are expensive F1 seeds), at least you'll know what you're getting.

[ancee]

Hmm... Makes you wonder about F1 seeds. Bred so we have to buy new every year and can't seed save. Some of them aren't as brilliant as they make out either also, they should put on the packets that you shouldn't bother saving the seeds as not everyone will know this. It's only because I read a thread on here a few years ago that I know not to save F1's
Anyway I've thousands of seeds to sow this year, I really should make a start...