Spanish white beans - runner or French?

[ChingfordHarry]

I thought someone here might be able to give me chapter and verse on this!

I'm growing some Spanish beans for drying so I can use them later for Fabada Asturiana - a bit like a cassoulet or a fejoada.

I have two different types of these giant white beans - one grown from some that I bought in Asturias (these look like large white kidney beans), and the other that comes from León (these look more like a butter bean) that I bought from a UK company.

The Asturian ones emerge from the ground with the seed first, and the León ones emerge with the leaf first. I've read that Phaseolus coccineus (runner beans) produce the leaf first, and that Phaseolus vulgaris (French or green bean) emerge with the seed first, so I think Asturian = French (!), León = runner.

I've also read that runner beans are promiscuous and will cross at the drop of a hat, but French beans tend to keep themselves to themselves so you're much more likely to keep the variety reasonably pure.

So my Qs are -

Have I identified my beans correctly?

Will my Asturian beans stay true to type?

[Snoop Puss]

I feel obliged to help but not sure if I can answer your questions.

Alubias fabada asturiana are Phaseolus vulgaris L. This is what they look like: https://casaperris.com/products/alub...a-d-o-asturias They're regarded as a gourmet bean here and not cheap at getting on for €18 a kilo.

I can't help you with the León beans as they're quite possibly called that because that's where they're grown. León is a big bean growing area known for the quality of the legumes grown there. Quite a few types of what you might call butter beans of varying sizes are grown there and could be either vulgaris or coccineus. But it sounds like you've managed to identify which type your beans are from their growth pattern.

Like you, I've googled for the possibility of cross-pollination. It seems to be rare. Are you able to grow them at some distance apart?

[ChingfordHarry]

Hi Snoop

Very helpful to know that alubias fabada asturiana are P. Vulgaris; I bought mine in Oviedo and they cost 12€ a kilo in 2018, so 18€ sounds about right now, and is a big part of what makes them worth growing! My fabas de León only cost me ~£12 a kilo, so they were cheap in comparison! One reason I want to grow them is because I've found it impossible to buy the dried Asturian beans here, and it's nearly a decade since I've been to Asturias.

The picture of the beans on that site look like mine. Here are a couple of pics - some chitting, and root trainers with the León beans in the foreground and Asturian in the background - they're quite different.

[Mark Rand]

I've got some 'greek Gigantes' bean seeds. They, apparently are a runner bean, Phaseolus coccineus.

I think that I've messed up the germination again this year (in the greenhouse, but not in the heated propagator, so cold at night). I've only seen signs of life from two pots out of a dozen. Tried some last yearbut but had a germination failure at the start of may. The ones I sowed later were too late to get a decent crop.

I've ordered some more seeds and will be more careful about temperature. Still hoping for a bit more activity from the ones already in the pots. Now in the heated propagator, but it needs care to stop it getting too hot once the sun's up.

I'll get it right eventually. I'm sure we used to just stick runner bean seeds in the ground and stand back.

[Andraste]

If I had to guess I'd have identified as runners/frenchies in the same way you described & that seems consistent with your pics.

I've no idea about cross pollinating - my instinct was they wouldn't but my googling said the same as Snoop's did i.e it is possible

I did well with gigantes when I tried them mark. I chitted them first then they went into the blow away to grow on. I had a look back at the seed sowing thread & I started them on 22 April 24. I'm not sure but a heat mat/propagator may be too warm?

[Mark Rand]

The propagator's set at 19°C, which should be safe. So long as I remember to open the vents/take the covers off during the day wen we get weather like we've had for the last week.

[Snoop Puss]

I'm embarrassed to say I don't grow any beans for drying. It's too hot and windy for them to do well here and I'd have to grow loads to meet our consumption requirements (we eat a lot of legumes).

My favourite Spanish white beans, should you ever see them, are judiones grandes (also known as judías del Barco de Ávila). Whoppers over 4 cm in length and 2-3 cm wide, thin skins and fabulous texture. For chickpeas, garbanzos lechosos are worth a try. Thin-skinned and lovely and soft.

[ChingfordHarry]

I'm also trying Gigantes this year - it says on the packet that you shouldn't try to chit them because they will just rot, and I'm waiting until it's a little warmer before starting them off. Any ideas how long they are supposed to take until the beans are ready to pick?

I'm put off growing chickpeas because I've only ever seen one pea per pod, and the yields round here didn't seem worthwhile. But I do eat a lot of them.

[Mark Rand]

I'm also trying Gigantes this year - it says on the packet that you shouldn't try to chit them because they will just rot, and I'm waiting until it's a little warmer before starting them off. Any ideas how long they are supposed to take until the beans are ready to pick?

I can believe that, since most of mine fell apart last year, and this year after a few hours soaking the skins wrinkled up alarmingly. The seed packet and web site didn't carry any useful warnings like that...

I'll try the next attempt straight into the compost.

[Andraste]

I got given some good advice when I asked about harvesting them here https://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gr...gigantes-beans

When you pick really depends on if you want to dry them - in which case I think I picked around October - or to eat /freeze straight away which would be about August onward

[ChingfordHarry]

hmmm - my fabas de León look like large butter beans and are actually runners, Gigantes look like large butter beans and are actually runners and Ameno says they are also grown in Italy and Spain.

Just a thought.

[JoaoLeaftide]

Gigantes are fussy about cold soil at germination, even a few degrees below what they want and they just sit there and rot. I've had better luck waiting until the soil is genuinely warm rather than trying to push them early under cover.

[Mark Rand]

I tipped out the compost on mine today and, as expected, all bar two had rotted. No more soaking!!!!

[Vince G]

I'm trying Tolosa beans this year. Watched Michael Portillo's recent series travelling in Spain and they make this amazing looking dark brown stew in the Basque country using these black beans cooked with bits of pork, ham, chorizo etc. Got some seeds online (from Hungary, bizarrely, not Spain). I always sow bean seeds direct rather than in pots, so will be a couple of weeks before I plant them, but looking forward to seeing how they do. Pic of stew attached.

[ChingfordHarry]

I'm trying Tolosa beans this year. Watched Michael Portillo's recent series travelling in Spain and they make this amazing looking dark brown stew in the Basque country using these black beans cooked with bits of pork, ham, chorizo etc. Got some seeds online (from Hungary, bizarrely, not Spain). I always sow bean seeds direct rather than in pots, so will be a couple of weeks before I plant them, but looking forward to seeing how they do. Pic of stew attached.

It looks like you can buy 400g bags of the dried beans at Brindisa for about £9 (a similar price to alubias de Asturias if I could get them!) - I usually get good germination rates from dried beans if they aren't too old.

Since I'm a big fan of other pork and bean stews, this is something that I will think about trying!