Warning signs of poorly-ness..?

[kathyd]

Hi

Sorry about this, I sometimes feel like a new mother worrying about her baby, but.. anyway -

This morning my cockerel, who's usually very assertive and honks all the time, pushing the hens out of the way to get out of the coop first in the morning and battling for food etc, seems really quiet and depressed. He was last out of the coop, made no attempt to eat any breakfast, and sat in that hunched up position in a 'hidden' place when I left, until rousted by an older hen wanting the coop to herself to lay an egg.

He was persuaded out by a bit of porridge and mealworms a while later, but barely ate anything even when 'hand' fed from a coffee jar lid - which he normally loves. He did take a couple of beakfuls, but then paused to open and close his beak as though struggling to swallow / digest or whatever. The hens do this all the time, but I've not noticed with him before, plus he didn't come back for more when he'd finished 'panting' like the hens always do.

He's obviously unwell, but I have no idea what it might be or what other signs I should be looking for, let alone what I should do about it... advice desperately needed please!

Thanks. Again.

[Suechooks]

Could he be moulting? Not got much experience with cockerels but some hens often appear depressed or unwell when they're beginning to moult so maybe thats it? He does sound unwell though.

[RichmondHens]

Have you examined him, ie picked him up and given him a good going over? He definitely sounds unwell, cocks are even better at hiding illness than hens as they like to appear strong in case an enemy (ie another cock) comes along. Opening and closing beak and having breathing problems could be gapeworm (if not wormed recently do again with Flubenvet, the only wormer to kill gapeworm). Is his crop empty, or squishy/full of fluid? Does his breath smell (sour crop)? Is he underweight? Is he coughing and/or sneezing (could be mycoplasma infection)? What colour is is comb and wattles - should be bright red. A dark or purple colour can indicate heart problems. What's his poo like? Endless possibilities I'm afraid.

If he seems very weak, listless and uninterested in his ladies he is pretty ill and it would be sensible to separate him from them. Put him in a cardboard box filled with straw for warmth and keep him dark and quiet in a shed somewhere. At this stage don't worry about trying to feed him. Offer water and if he has not drunk anything voluntarily by tomorrow am (and he is still alive) then you will have to syringe some into him (this is quite easy with a poorly chicken btw, they don't offer much resistance).

Keep us posted, I'm here now for rest of afternoon in between domestic chores so will try to help as much as I can although have drinks do this evening.

[VirginVegGrower]

I love these two ladies - thank goodness for RH and SC.

KathyD I hope he turns around. If it's at all comforting we now have a fully feathered Sage who was acting all odd just like Madeline and Rosemary. We bombarded them with Baytril and Baycox. The opening/closing of beak can be crop rearrangement. I panicked on that thinking all sorts and it was RH who calmed me down, said it was normal. It was too. I would check him over. Handle him - does he feel light? If you can't pick him up, does he look like he's losing weight? I bought something called Nutridrops but I don't know whether that's possible in France. Keep offering titbits. Probiotic yoghurt and grated apple maybe? Thinking of you - I know how you feel

[kathyd]

Thankyou everyone, but unfortunately it's too late for Mr Blue, who died this afternoon whilst I was at a friend's for lunch . Luckily I'd already separated him as soon as I realised he was ill, and was keeping him in the porch in a cage with a blanket over the top and sides for warmth and darkness. As I left he was falling asleep on his feet, then he staggered, his wings both drooped right to the ground, and he flopped onto his belly between the box of wood shavings and the side of the cage (still breathing at this point), which is where he was when I found him.

I can't believe it happened so quickly - he seemed as right as rain yesterday, except in retrospect he didn't quite finish his supper. He was obviously ill this morning, and by mid afternoon he was dead...

I really hope it wasn't anything catching - I'd hate the others to go the same way . I'm expecting one of his sisters to need putting to sleep shortly as her condition (which I'm still convinced is genetic) is getting worse, and now her brother has died she'll honestly have nothing to live for - I know you shouldn't ascribe human feelings to chickens, but she doted on him. And I could have wept earlier when his other sister flew out over the electric fence to come back to find him after I'd put all the others back in their run and left him behind - I couldn't get her to keep still until she'd seen he was OK in his cage.

[kathyd]

Opening and closing beak and having breathing problems could be gapeworm (if not wormed recently do again with Flubenvet, the only wormer to kill gapeworm).

Is his crop empty, or squishy/full of fluid? Does his breath smell (sour crop)?

Is he underweight? Is he coughing and/or sneezing (could be mycoplasma infection)?

What colour is is comb and wattles - should be bright red. A dark or purple colour can indicate heart problems.

What's his poo like? Endless possibilities I'm afraid.

Keep us posted, I'm here now for rest of afternoon in between domestic chores so will try to help as much as I can although have drinks do this evening.

Hi RH - to answer your points more specificially in case you can throw any light on things -

- all chickens were recently thoroughly wormed with Flubenvet. Prior to this, I did see worms in his poo, but there have been no signs since worming. Didn't notice him pooing today so unfortunately can't comment, and wouldn't know his poo from anyone else's to be honest... I did find a bit of poo in the coop a few days ago that may have had some blood in it, but haven't noticed anything since, and I don't know who it belonged to...

- crop - not sure, didn't really want to prod him around since he seemed so poorly. I've been feeding him his supper time grain mixed with a few mushy pellets and mealworms for the last few days to make sure he's been getting enough to eat - he seemed to suffer from poor co-ordination or eyesight and found it difficult to home in on even large grain like maize - took me ages to work out why he got so stressed at feeding time, and spent more time honking and bullying everyone else than eating himself - presumably because he saw them all eating things and he was getting nothing.. and he did seem a bit small and light, but seemed to put on weight and bulk out almost as soon as I started to manage his feeding a bit more (no, I didn't overfeed, it as just his share in a coffee jar lid). Didn't notice foul breath when I carried him into the porch earlier, but then wasn't really sniffing at the time...

- No sign of coughing, sneezing or any kind of bodily fluid oozing from any orifice I could see

- crop was a lovely rich shade of red, although was quite purply when I found him dead this afternoon

Sorry, nothing very helpful is there? He honestly seemd in the peak of good health yesterday, and I've been really pleased with his progress given his deformed feet and eye/co-ordination problems.

Being more positive though, at least he's had an extra 2.5 months of happy, free ranging life with his sisters, and bossing everyone around, which he wouldn't have got if I'd not agreed to take him in the first place - and at around 24-26 weeks has probably lived longer than some table birds...

[VirginVegGrower]

I am so sorry KathyD. I know purple comb can be hear or liver and I would assume it is just lack of circulatory indicator post death. Just keep an eye on the others now as they are great at hiding symptoms and springing symptoms on you at the last minute. Blood in poo can be I think Coccidiosis but that would need a vet diagnosis/analysis and treatment.
As you say, he had 2.5 months that wouldn't have been otherwise so although it may not feel better for you, did for him, bless him.

[frias]

Sorry to hear about Mr Blue. ((((((big hug))))))

[RichmondHens]

Sorry to hear it Kathy. It's difficult to say what might have been the problem - blood in poo can indicate coccidiosis, keep an eye on the others as they will need treatment if they start to show similar symptoms, but that doesn't mean he had it. If you were having to feed him then he had obviously been not right for a while and as his sister has her own problems then I can't help feeling that they both have had some interbreeding fault.

I'm sure you will be able to get another cock pretty easily (if you want one). Try and choose one though, rather than taking on someone's unwanted waifs and strays. And go for a mature cock, at least a year old. At that age they will have developed good immunity to most common bugs especially if they have lived a good free range lifestyle.

[polo]

Sorry to hear that, it was rather sudden x

[kathyd]

Thank you all for your kind words. I'll definitely monitor the others - but it was all so fast I may not even have time to get them to the vet's if they start to look poorly .

I absolutely agree with you RH about interbreeding. I'm not planning on getting another cock at the moment - I hadn't really planned on one in the first place, he just kind of ended up with me.. If and when I decide I'm hooked forever and want to breed, I'm going to search carefully for my stock - hens from one place, cock from elsewhere. Or at the very least from a reputable breeder (if I can find one over here!). And I'll make sure I see them in the flesh before I buy. No more waifs and strays. You need to keep reminding me though - no more waifs and strays! I'm a bit of a sucker for a lost cause or a hopeless case at times...

[Nicos]

Sorry to hear your news...you've not had much luck recently have you??

2012 is sure to be better for you

I may well have a young cockerel in the summer if you are interested?(...not planning any hatchings yet- but certainly in the Springtime)

It'd be nice to meet up with you!

[kathyd]

Hi Nicos

Luck eh? Well... I guess on some levels you could say that, but on the other hand we now live in a lovely house in a beautiful place with a big garden living a life we couldn't possibly afford in the UK, and I have chickens and a dog! Yes, I've just lost a chicken, and yes, I'm expecting to lose another one soon, but as long as the other birds are OK, I can cope . If I lost the others as well I'd be truly gutted, I must be honest.

Re-the cockerel, that's really kind of you, thanks . However, I'm not intending to replace Blue - if I decide to breed chickens, I'd like to try araucanas because I'm fascinated with the idea of blue eggs - so unless you can magic me up a cockerel and a couple of unrelated ladies, I'm going to have to pass this time I'm afraid. And I'd have to persuade Tony first . But if there's ever an opportunity to meet up it'd certainly be good - although I suspect you live about a billion miles away from us.

[VirginVegGrower]

I'll come over with a Cream Legbar tucked away for blue egg production if it means I can eat my way across France, with the odd drink thrown in of course...you lucky lucky girls...with today as an exception of course

[kathyd]

Lol VVG, any time . Maybe you could raise a giant one and fly across??