How to remove deep roots of reeds in new overgrown allotment

[samski]

Many thanks all for responses. My plan based on feedback from here and elsewhere is to dig down a few feet in sections where I'll have beds, remove as much of the roots as poss, test ph and possibly use lime, lay Terram side and bottom and then raised beds ridge system on top with gutter. Also contacted the council and asked for a year rent free and to be put on list for other plots.
Appreciate that covering it for a year, use of rotavator and other suggestions might be best way forward but keen to get stuck in (said the foolhardy man) and see how it goes!...

Any other advice welcome.

[Snadger]

I think I would spade off the top and after a soil test (which I assume would be very acid, even down to 4.00 Ph ) give a heavy dressing of lime. As far as i know reeds grow in acid wet conditions so they would curl up there toes if the Ph was raissd to neutral? I wouldn't normally advocate rotovating but if the liime did the job and the reeds died, it would probably be a solution and still allow you to keep the decayed organic matter within the soil.

[ESBkevin]

I'm going to suggest you remove what is obvious then use double thick black plastic over everything. You could wait until some growth and apply some systemic weed killer on the leaves first. Write off growing anything there for this year and prepare it for next. Once you start growing if any shoots appear just apply vinegar/ascetic acid to those as a safe way to kill new growth. In time you will tame the weeds/rushes but the wet conditions will require a different approach. One advantage of the roots perishing in situ is that that leaves drainways in the sub soil. Lots (and I mean lots) of organic matter (wood chip etc.) will slowly open up the soil structure making it less of a problem to work. You might need to put in a drain if the area floods frequently/seasonally.

[Snoop Puss]

Is it a council-run site? If so, take them photos so they can see what you're up against.

[nickdub]

Hi VC,
Yes it will do, if you only do it once - the key to using a rotovator to clearing ground like this is to plan on doing 6 or 7 sessions over 3 or 4 months when the ground is at its driest. If you want to speed things up, then forking over the rotovated ground and raking off weed roots will obviously help.

Its a trade-off between your time, hard work, money etc., and obviously the size of the plot you want to tackle has a bearing on the economics of it too.

Cheers

Nick

[bikermike]

one other thought - plats need light to grow. They can store some energy in their roots, but overall growth "costs" the plant energy that it needs to replenish via sunshine. The more you deny it light, the less it can grow.

Where you can't dig it out, can you cover it?
Also, although plans *can* grow deep roots, they are more of a long-term cost that near-surface roots that put shoots up quickly. So even a foot-deep barrier in the soil will *slow* (no promises as to stop) sideways growth.

what I would do is to do one area properly (dig as far as you can, get it all out), then do the rest a bit and cover it, extending the weed barrier as far below the surface as you can. This *should* mean that it will be slower to grow back in the areas you are planting in, so you can keep on top of it with frequent weeding/hoeing. The covering and barriers means that the weed in the other areas isn't in "profit" and so won't have the same vigour when trying to invade (and the barrier makes it harder).

Then you can dig another bit out when you have the first bit settled down. Marking it out into beds seems to me to make it easier to weed methodically

[veggiechicken]

Just a thought - would rotovating the plot and chopping up the roots result in even more little reeds growing - as it does with couch grass?

[samski]

Yes might talk to council and see if they can help with anything. Had some advice to use something like Terram to box the beds in. https://www.ultimate-one.co.uk/terra...qar1e3ggqgv8s4
?

[Snoop Puss]

I'm tempted to use some herbicide on the roots that are exposed after I've dug down a few feet, but would something like 'round up root and weed killer' work this time of year? Or at all with the reeds rhizomatic roots? Would a rhizome barrier help or maybe wont do much unless I dig out the whole site by say 4 feet and edge the whole area?

Beyond that I think raised beds / ditches is maybe the way forward, as a trial for this year - that's how previous users of the site seem to have managed it from remaining the shape and structure of the patch. And get on the list for another patch! I do need the exercise!..

Have a look at this:
https://www.roundup.com.au/how-roundup-works
It says Round-up is absorbed through leaves. I wouldn't like to say if it's absorbed through roots too, but I once used glyphosate (same stuff, essentially) and although it says there's no residue in the soil, I had a reduced crop the following year. Although this is anecdotal, a Canadian study confirmed that it does impair harvests the year after use. That being the case, I wouldn't like to spray it on roots as you will get a lot in the soil. There's also some controversy over whether or not it is a carcinogen. I've not used it ever since...

If you think you won't be using the patch for long but you're determined to go ahead, make sure you don't waste effort on clearing space you're not going to use. I found your mention of "previous users" in the plural a bit worrying. It may be that the other plot holders don't have the same problems because drainage has been put in, but it's draining into your plot.

[1Bee]

I think they've been outrageous giving you that plot, frankly. Phragmites is a wetland plant - what you've been given as a vegetable plot is actually a silted up pond. I'm sorry I don't have more advice - ask around the other plot holders, drain, drain, drain again.

Good luck!

[samski]

Thanks for all the responses - v helpful. Yes low ground - it's located in Thamesmead approx 1k from the Thames (the bit that didn't have concrete poured all over it because it was marshland...). The other plots seem fine though and the other plot holders I've spoken to don't have big problems.

I'm tempted to use some herbicide on the roots that are exposed after I've dug down a few feet, but would something like 'round up root and weed killer' work this time of year? Or at all with the reeds rhizomatic roots? Would a rhizome barrier help or maybe wont do much unless I dig out the whole site by say 4 feet and edge the whole area?

Beyond that I think raised beds / ditches is maybe the way forward, as a trial for this year - that's how previous users of the site seem to have managed it from remaining the shape and structure of the patch. And get on the list for another patch! I do need the exercise!..

[Jungle Jane]

Will the reeds just come back? I'm not sure how long I'll have the plot so more about getting a good crop this year and trying to help bring the plot back to use.

The seeds could lay dormant in the soil for years so they could come back. If you just cut it down it will grow again,get as much root out as you can. Get rid of the feathery seed heads then dig out the grass.

[nickdub]

If I was looking to clear that ground I'd be wanting some sort of rotovator for at least 1 year to get the worst of the heavy work done. probably aim to go over it reworking the ground once a month in the summer for 5 or 6 months.

Once the ground was reasonably clear of the worst weeds then possibly plan on growing stuff on a ridge system where the soil is hoed up into mounds leaving gullies between so you can dry it out enough to grow plants successfully.

On the plus side the ground should be very rich, so if you can work it you should get good crops.

[Snoop Puss]

Hello and welcome, Samski.

Sorry to sound so negative but that pond that you're digging doesn't bode well... I guess it's a stupid question, but how comes there's so much water there? I guess from the reeds it's very wet ground all year round, but is it recent rainfall or are you only just above the water table? What do the other allotments round about you look like?

Yes ,the effect is ,......it gets rid of all the dead growth , and gives the Reed a fantastic chance to Re Juvinate from a fresh start ...but it wont hurt the roots ....

REEDS ONLY GROW IN 'wet ' GROUND , Water combats fire.

I have very little experience of reeds but if they only like wet then surely you would need to focus on that first then the digging? . Maybe an investigation hole to see if there pan or other reason. Make a natural pond. French drains. Dig in lots of gravel/ stone. Raised beds.