Biological farming - better than organic and conventional?

[Thelma Sanders]

Hi Greenleaves

Yes, but he uses all kinds of stuff and does it every year

I understand that all Charles Dowding uses is lots of homemade compost or composted manure. I can't see what's wrong with doing so? He's been using his method very successfully for many years now.
It seems to me that you are trying to get people to use a method that you haven't even proved works for yourself. Please come back in a few years and tell us if your new method actually works as well as you think it will.

[Jungle Jane]

I don�t have time to watch a video but I�m not a big farmer,they might have more spare time. We probably have discussed every method in the forum,if you put in certain words about what you�re doing - no dig you�ll find loads of threads that you can join in with or start a new one if you�ve got a question about something. It would be interesting if you tell us what you actually do with all the info

[veggiechicken]

Purpleone, you didn't offend me - but what follows may offend you, though that is not my intention!
I've been on the forum for many years and I've seen many people come and go. Sadly, some of the people who post here with some method which they want to promote are also here because they seek to gain from it in some way. You'd be surprised how many "good ideas" are really advertising. That is why I've been asking you to tell us about where you live and how you garden - and because knowing a little about someone helps us to understand how we may be able to share ideas or help.

There aren't many of us here who have a plot large enough for 100 fruit trees and 100 grapevines - only in my dreams. So the scale of what you do is considerably different to most of us - allotment and back garden growers. I've lived in the same house for 30+ years, I don't dig or apply manmade fertilisers, nor do I garden in rows, but that's another story! I'm not going to change the way I garden as, even brewing up a Dr Ingham liquid compost entails significantly more work than my garden needs.

Dr Ingham's methods have been discussed here before - have a look in the Search box.
..............and we still don't know where you live - not even the country!

[ESBkevin]

Hi Purpleone,

I have watched several hours of Dr Ingrams lectures (via youtube) and find the science and fact based conclusions sit easy on my mind. She speaks in an easygoing manner. As a consultant she is employed by governments and large charities around the world as well as big business farmers. She has an impressive list of satisfied clients by all acounts.
If this method excites you then also look at the 'Korean farming' methods to where they might have poor soil, little access to compostables and no access to expensive factory made sprays and fertilisers.
Heres some simple text
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_natural_farming
There are plenty of youtube vids on the subject too which I suspect will interest you. It's amazing what a stand of bambo and some part cooked rice can produce!
Of course this isn't just practiced by the Koreans and is used a lot in the Hawiian islands too as well as other parts of the globe.

I can't watch the vid you posted just now but will book mark to watch one cold dark evening, oh that might be tonight!

[Mr Bones]

Hi Mr Bones Thank you for that. I heard about that book. I will probably order it. Thanks.

How do you like the results of applying this stuff so far?

It's working well so far, certainly an improvement in crop quality and pest incidence compared to how I was gardening before, though it might take a while for natural predators to build up sufficiently to keep it all in balance (especially on an allotment site.. ha..)

Must say, I'm not at all scientific when making the compost tea, no set measures or complicated ingredients. I use compost, treacle and water; a wooden spoon to dish out the treacle and brew up in a plastic dustbin with a big stick. It's a bit ad-hoc but I'm pleased with the results and have fun doing it

Good luck and keep us posted how you get on.

[Snoop Puss]

ESBKevin, do you follow a particular 'method'? Do you use this Korean method or a version thereof?

Edited to add: those books look interesting, Mr Bones. Maybe something I should have started reading in December when I had more time. Anyway, I'll take a look at them too. I have to admit, though, that at my age I do tend to want the low-down straight away! Time feels like it's of the essence these days.

[Mr Bones]

I have to admit, though, that at my age I do tend to want the low-down straight away! Time feels like it's of the essence these days.

In short
Compost teas etc. The full versions (e.g. Dr. Ingham) brew beneficial aerobic microbes and fungi which when applied to the soil outcompete bad bacteria and create a sustainable soil ecosystem.
I've got lots of wood chips down which is full of fungi so make a simple tea using only aerobic compost, black treacle and water. It only takes a day, two at most and lasts months.
Probably the most important thing is keeping aerobic bacteria active in the compost and only introducing aerobic microbes to the soil.

Korean Natural farming (effective micro-organisms - EMO's) utilises naturally occurring lactic acid bacillus. A stable mix is made that can be diluted and applied to ground or water (or drains or animal pens for that matter) so the beneficial bacteria can take over the bad bacteria.
It works brilliant against botrytis, stopping it in its' tracks, consequently I've not risked using it on the plot in case it destroys beneficial fungus that I've been working to get established.

Both methods utilise naturally occurring organisms to promote healthy soil. Probably most (if not all) organic no-dig gardeners are already seeing at least some benefits of the above without actively practicing it.
This is a really short version, there's lots of more detailed info out there, hope it helps.

[veggiechicken]

Thanks Mr B - I like short and simple
My question is - how and where do you apply this liquid compost? Is it to plants that "need" it (as you would feed tomatoes) or to beds as part of a rotation or everywhere?

[Mr Bones]

Some folk say spray compost tea to foliage and it'll crowd out any nasties but I can't say that worked at all for me. I use it as a soil drench. From what I can tell it'd be difficult to overdose so there's plenty of leeway when applying.
I put it down on every bed when the weather warms so the bacteria can thrive. So far I've not found a plant that doesn't like it (just like good quality compost)

[Snoop Puss]

Thanks, Mr Bones. Very useful. I'll be getting these books for sure. But that was a big help. Do you combine these teas with manure, ash, green manures or other treatments? Or are they all you use?

All in all, a useful thread for introducing me to things I'd never heard of. So thanks, purpleone. Even if I am a bit skeptical about only having to do this once and never again. Maybe weather conditions are different where Dr. Ingham lives!

[Mr Bones]

Thanks, Mr Bones. Do you combine these teas with manure, ash, green manures or other treatments? Or are they all you use?

I don't make much ash so tend to mix it into the compost which also contains rabbit poo. Fertilisers are limited to organic based stuff (BFB, chicken pellets etc.) so as not to kill soil microbes. Hoping to be able to reduce fertiliser use and maybe even phase them out completely as soil fertility improves.
Since going no-dig I've not used green manures, if I did it'd probably be planned so the tops went into the compost and roots died off over winter.
Certainly for me compost tea delivers, and with minimal cost and effort

[Snoop Puss]

Thanks. Plenty to think about, all round.

[purpleone]

Hi Purpleone,

I have watched several hours of Dr Ingrams lectures (via youtube) and find the science and fact based conclusions sit easy on my mind. She speaks in an easygoing manner. As a consultant she is employed by governments and large charities around the world as well as big business farmers. She has an impressive list of satisfied clients by all acounts.
If this method excites you then also look at the 'Korean farming' methods to where they might have poor soil, little access to compostables and no access to expensive factory made sprays and fertilisers.
Heres some simple text
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_natural_farming
There are plenty of youtube vids on the subject too which I suspect will interest you. It's amazing what a stand of bambo and some part cooked rice can produce!
Of course this isn't just practiced by the Koreans and is used a lot in the Hawiian islands too as well as other parts of the globe.

I can't watch the vid you posted just now but will book mark to watch one cold dark evening, oh that might be tonight!

Hi ESBkevin
I hope dr Inghams videos will help you

I will look at Koran farming
Thanks

[purpleone]

Purpleone, you didn't offend me - but what follows may offend you, though that is not my intention!
I've been on the forum for many years and I've seen many people come and go. Sadly, some of the people who post here with some method which they want to promote are also here because they seek to gain from it in some way. You'd be surprised how many "good ideas" are really advertising. That is why I've been asking you to tell us about where you live and how you garden - and because knowing a little about someone helps us to understand how we may be able to share ideas or help.

There aren't many of us here who have a plot large enough for 100 fruit trees and 100 grapevines - only in my dreams. So the scale of what you do is considerably different to most of us - allotment and back garden growers. I've lived in the same house for 30+ years, I don't dig or apply manmade fertilisers, nor do I garden in rows, but that's another story! I'm not going to change the way I garden as, even brewing up a Dr Ingham liquid compost entails significantly more work than my garden needs.

Dr Ingham's methods have been discussed here before - have a look in the Search box.
..............and we still don't know where you live - not even the country!

No, I am not advertising anything. As a matter of fact most of the information is completely free. And I seriously doubt that someone that has references like dr Ingham would hire someone to advertise her on forums.

Good luck with your garden

[purpleone]

It's working well so far, certainly an improvement in crop quality and pest incidence compared to how I was gardening before, though it might take a while for natural predators to build up sufficiently to keep it all in balance (especially on an allotment site.. ha..)

Must say, I'm not at all scientific when making the compost tea, no set measures or complicated ingredients. I use compost, treacle and water; a wooden spoon to dish out the treacle and brew up in a plastic dustbin with a big stick. It's a bit ad-hoc but I'm pleased with the results and have fun doing it

Good luck and keep us posted how you get on.

Thanks Mr Bones
Good to hear it's going good for you Mr Bones

I have around 100 fruit trees and around 100 grapevines. During the last 30 years approximately the production has been drooping significantly. We have been using mostly chemical fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides and so on. I believe that is the cause so I am going to try with this new methods to see if it helps.

I will try to share here when I test this method so you and other people can maybe benefit from it.