Daleks VS Pallet bins

[Two_Sheds]

Here I go, quoting again and giving an alternative viewpoint, so apols for any offence taken...

how does bacteria get enough oxygen to break down the material? Isnt getting air into the compost crucial to success?

The stuff in a compost heap/dalek isn't packed down flat, therefore there are air pockets between the materials.

I ONLY use daleks, 6 of them, so trust me if you will, they work.

Warmth clearly stimulates the break down of material as well

It's actually the thermophilic bacteria that create the warmth. They are naturally present, but are activated by moisture ~ which is why you should dampen your pile. (Not soggy though, that will lead to stinky anaerobic decomp).

After the thermophiles have done their bit, the compost cools down and other bacteria (and organisms such as moulds & fungi) move in and further aid decomposition).

UNLESS you keep turning the pile, which starts the thermophiles off again.

[Two_Sheds]

Incidentally, I've just been out and taken the temp of my back yard dalek: 26c, even at night

[Snadger]

Incidentally, I've just been out and taken the temp of my back yard dalek: 26c, even at night

Can you not harness some of that heat for propagation at this time of year?

[veggiechicken]

Here I go, quoting again and giving an alternative viewpoint, so apols for any offence taken...

Its in your nature TS. You said the other day you were a teacher - so why not? I'm listenng!!

[singleseeder]

Can you not harness some of that heat for propagation at this time of year?

I read about/saw someone who had a compost bin in the greenhouse over the winter to give off some heat.

[taff]

It's actually the thermophilic bacteria that create the warmth. They are naturally present, but are activated by moisture ~ which is why you should dampen your pile.
After the thermophiles have done their bit, the compost cools down and other bacteria (and organisms such as moulds & fungi) move in and further aid decomposition).
UNLESS you keep turning the pile, which starts the thermophiles off again.

I have to ask, why does turning start them off again? Is it because they have access to more thermo-inducing stuff because you've shifted the heat inducing food around, or for another reason?

Did that make sense?

As if they are only near some kind of food they will eat and produce heat, and when you shake it up a bit, they come into contact with more stuff they can eat, or is it to do with air pockets etc?

[ladylottie]

I have a dalek bin at home and three pallet bins at the lottie. All of them work ok, but I prefer the pallet bins myself, mainly because I'm only 5 foot 2 inches tall and find it quite a struggle to lift the dalek off the compost on my own.

The dalek does produce compost quicker but I find it easier to turn the compost in the pallet bins.

It's all down to personal preference at the end of the day

[SarrissUK]

I read about/saw someone who had a compost bin in the greenhouse over the winter to give off some heat.

And isn't it the same phenomenon that was/is used in hotbeds, where masses of fresh manure is piled into raised beds, with another raised bed on top, for growing pineapple and stuff in the victorian times?

[Two_Sheds]

Can you not harness some of that heat for propagation at this time of year?

Someone cleverer could. I'm just going to use the heat to show the school kids that I can boil an egg on the heap (maybe)

I have to ask, why does turning start them off again?

Because it re-introduces the perfect conditions for those thermophilic organisms: oxygen, moisture, carbon & nitrogen, from the cooler parts of the heap. The hottest part of a pile is in the centre, near the top. The coolest part is the sides, with the very coolest part being the bottom of the heap, just above the ground.

"Compost heat is produced as a by-product of the microbial breakdown of organic material. The heat production depends on the size of the pile, its moisture content, aeration, and C/N ratio."

The quickest stage of composting is from thermophilic (heat loving, heat producing) organisms.

If you turn the heap, you incorporate uncomposted parts into the middle where it gets hotter and those thermophiles start to multiply again and get back to work. Turning/mixing also introduces more carbon and/or nitrogen into the mix, both of which are vital for microbes. Turning introduces more air pockets too, oxygen being vital to the process.

However, most species of microorganisms "cannot survive at temperatures above 60-65°C, so [commercial] compost managers turn or aerate their systems to bring the temperature down if they begin to get this hot." Compost physics

Other, in fact most, beneficial organisms (the mesophiles) are in the cooler parts, still decomposing the heap, but slower. Cold heaps still work, but take longer than hot heaps, as we know from experience. A range of different organisms (such as tiger worms, woodlice, fungi) is required: it's not actually desirable to go for a hot, hot, hot heap, as extreme heat kills most of the beneficial organisms in the heap.

"When growing on bread, thermophiles can raise the temperature of the bread to 74°C (165°F)"

"Both mesophilic and thermophilic microorganisms are found widely distributed in nature, and are commonly resident on food material, garbage, and manures" (including our own).

source of info here

I'm only 5 foot 2 inches tall and find it quite a struggle to lift the dalek off the compost

I'm only an inch taller, and with a paralysed shoulder. You might need to lever yours off with a spade at the bottom. Loosen the bottom of the dalek, then rock the whole thing (lid off) back and forth with your body weight. When it feels loose (you'll feel it 'give') you can bend down, and with one hand on the bottom lip and one on the top lip, lift it off.

I then rake out the pile, leaving most of it in situ and picking out the big uncomposted lumps to put in the new heap.

[shushkin!]

Thank you Two Sheds. Sadly people ask me to problem solve their composting results with the Dalek more than any other bin. Most folk just chuck stuff in willy nilly and then moan about the stinky slimey results. They just dont think about getting the mix right and the amount of moisture.
To be fair the traditional pallet built bins are much more forgiving on what you can chuck in and provide useable compost even if it takes longer with the cold composting process.
I will stick to the traditional composting set up (like Montys on Gardeners World) as it is so easy to access the material and turn it over when required. Create a huge pile of material and the heat builds up in no time. Just keep it covered to keep rain and cold out, regularly try and add stuff and dont put anything in there that certain rodents want to munch!
Daleks definitely have their place with modern families but what gets chucked in there etc etc has to be considered carefully before you can achieve lovely non-smelly compost.

Here I go, quoting again and giving an alternative viewpoint, so apols for any offence taken...

The stuff in a compost heap/dalek isn't packed down flat, therefore there are air pockets between the materials.

I ONLY use daleks, 6 of them, so trust me if you will, they work.


It's actually the thermophilic bacteria that create the warmth. They are naturally present, but are activated by moisture ~ which is why you should dampen your pile. (Not soggy though, that will lead to stinky anaerobic decomp).

After the thermophiles have done their bit, the compost cools down and other bacteria (and organisms such as moulds & fungi) move in and further aid decomposition).

UNLESS you keep turning the pile, which starts the thermophiles off again.

[ladylottie]

I'm only an inch taller, and with a paralysed shoulder. You might need to lever yours off with a spade at the bottom. Loosen the bottom of the dalek, then rock the whole thing (lid off) back and forth with your body weight. When it feels loose (you'll feel it 'give') you can bend down, and with one hand on the bottom lip and one on the top lip, lift it off.

I then rake out the pile, leaving most of it in situ and picking out the big uncomposted lumps to put in the new heap.[/QUOTE]

Thanks TS - if you can do it - so can I

[rana]

In my experience Daleks run warm and fast but the volume is pitiful. Pallet bins can be constructed to suit your needs and in my opinion the bigger the better.

[OverWyreGrower]

I use my dalek bins for the vast amount of chicken/duck manure and bedding we have. I just fill the daleks with that and leave it. It rots down like a manure heap at a stables. I take off the entire dalek, as TS does, to get to the compost....

[Madasafish]

We have two daleks for kitchen waste: one festering whilst the other fills. takes six months to rot down: I then upend them and use a fork to move the compost - much quicker.

We also have 3 pallet bins used for leaves and dead flowers/veg stalks etc.. After 12 months, dig out and pile elsewhere to rot for another 6 months.

My back likes none of them..:-(

Then we have two plastic dustbins for turkey poo... they take 12 months to fester as well: spread onto fruit bushes and beds...