To Rotovate or Not

[Two_Sheds]

Page 2 - Use a rotovator to clear an overgrown allotment

this article is good on pros and cons of rotavating.

[George Gray]

To Rotavate or not to Rotavate-that is the question

Well our council is now prepared to offer to clean up and rotovate any new overgrown plots. That invoves cutting down the bushes and rotovating. If, after they are cut down. the plotholder want to weedkill that is up to him/her.However I do think that just rotavating a plot without either weedkilling or handweeding is a license for future trouble. Best to cover some of it, tackle what you can and get out of it something you can be proud off!

[Storm]

Thanks for all the advice on this. the plot that lavenderblue and i have got is big and realistically if we decide to hand dig then we will have to adopt the suggestion earlier in the thread of cutting down what we are going to sow and cultivate just 2 or 3 things and cover the rest of the plot until next year.

i've attached a pic of how the ground looks - once a lot of the top weeds have been cleared. there's a lot of "thatch" from dead grass etc and most of what is left is nettles and brambles. will these spread by shredded root if the ground is rotorvated?

this photo is not typical of the whole plot. at one end there are no nettles at all - just a few bramble stumps and dents where tufts of grass have been dug out.

i am at a loss now as to where to go next.

[Storm]

ok another problem with an attachemnt!!!

i will try again.... the quality is very poor but the image is compressed to thte mimit and still exceeds the file size limit on jpg images

[Two_Sheds]

nettles and brambles. will these spread by shredded root if the ground is rotorvated?

yes


I know it's hard work, but digging with a fork (a spade will only chop the roots up) is the way to get the roots all out. You can considerably weaken the roots before you dig, by covering them with a thick mulch (I still use carpet) for a few months - as long as you can really.

[Storm]

thanks for that.... i had a feeling someone would say that they spread by root. we have got the worst patch under cover (old carpet underlay) but it's only been on for about 3 weeks.

what the picture doesn't show is the degree of stuff in the soil. a fork slides in easily and the soil is WONDERFUL - but it is all but impossible to turn a clod over with the fork due to the density of roots, debris, thatch, grass etc. imagine trying to fork over ground that was riddled with thick plastic bale twine and you will get the idea

even my trusty mattock couldn't pull a clod out! you could almost hear the weeds laughing at me as i tried!

we're gonna put the compost bins on top of the worst bits i think... the rest i think will have to be covered in liner.... but at £12.99 for a 25m roll that's gonna cost.... my family and friends are all out of old carpets

ho hum

yes


I know it's hard work, but digging with a fork (a spade will only chop the roots up) is the way to get the roots all out. You can considerably weaken the roots before you dig, by covering them with a thick mulch (I still use carpet) for a few months - as long as you can really.

[pigletwillie]

Your decision should rest on how quickly you want a productive plot Storm and how much work you want to put in to get it productive.

When I have taken on each of my plots, they have been cleared with glysophate to kill all but the most stuborn of weeds. Later they have been ploughed and rotovated to give me a plot that is useful and productive in short order.

I must say that after the first hit nothing on my plots get sprayed and I garden in an organic way from then onward. With my first plot that means 4 years, acceptable I think to even the SA. Life is too short to be a paragon of virtue on the subject, being pragmatic means I dont have to wear hemp shirts and get the full use of a plot, a plot left under plastic is a waste when some compromise at first can get it into use.

[JanieB]

My plot is heavy clay and whilst I take on board that rotovating will chop up the roots and spread the weeds, I can't get the ruddy things out of the unbreakable rock-like clods that I'm turning over anyway. All I do is rip the grass off the top and leave the roots insitu.

Neither do I really wish to use Glysophate. Somehow I need to break the earth up so that I can dig compost and sand in to improve the soil. So weed roots or not it will be Glysophate and rotovator. Followed by mulching and weed suppressants.

Maybe when the plot is usable I will go organic, but I do not have the muscle to do it without chemical and mechanical help.

I also have 1/3 of the plot that has "soweto" on it. I'm about as far as any plot on the site is away from where a vehicle can park. Alot of this will go to the tip. I will recycle as much as I can. This part of the plot is unusable until it's cleared. Plans are for this to be for new shed, greenhouse and permanent beds (fruit bushes, trees, rhubarb etc).

So along with Pigletwillie, although it's not what I want to do, I've had the plot since last April and it's going nowhere without extra help.

[Storm]

someone on the allotment has got a mate who has offered to come and plough it for us... i hope that this will be more effective than rotorvating.

we're gonna put compost bins and water butts on the "weedy" end to save digging them..

in terms of breaking soil JanieB i swear by my old mattock. they used to break up the really rocky soil where i lived in spain. a large metal spike does the trick as well..

i torched patches of our lottie off as well when the grass dried out a bit. this made clearing the remains much easier as i could see exactly where the brambles were rooted and also things were weakened by the fire.

the weeds burn off quickly if dry and so i would doubt they do much damage to the soil... no more than glyphosphate perhaps...

good luck... i know how you feel. we're in teh same boat!!!

[JanieB]

in terms of breaking soil JanieB i swear by my old mattock. they used to break up the really rocky soil where i lived in spain. a large metal spike does the trick as well..

good luck... i know how you feel. we're in teh same boat!!!

Thanks. I've bought an azada, but i need to get the top off the weeds first. And it still won't give me a nice silth.

[Derek]

I have to agree with Pigletwillie's outlook on couch grass. Four years ago I took on a second half plot with extensive couch grass ...one hour to dig a couple of square yards is not my idea of fun.

Glyphosate dealt with the situation admirably and I now have no need to use any chemical sprays.

However, as I am on a fairly large allotment site many of the other plotholders do use chemical sprays therefore I cannot claim to be organic. Plus I cannot guarantee that the manure I have put on last year comes from an organic farm.


I try......

[pigletwillie]

I think that there are two schools of thought on this, the take your time almost luddite approach that takes time to get a plot into production or the quicker more pragmatic approach that uses either glysophate, a rotovator or both to get a full plot into a state that is useable. Both have their place and neither should be discounted.

Being as organic as possible is the best route but I draw the line at wearing hemp shirts over cotton and personally I would rather see a plot with rows of crops growing which is what keeps most newbies going, than acres of plastic and cardboard while they struggle with time and family commitments to get some useable ground. If that means using a rotovator then so be it.

[Two_Sheds]

By all means use weedkiller and rotavators, but don't think the easy solution is all THAT easy...you still need to go over and over with a fork to get all the roots out.
I am so frustrated by my neighbours who just throw weedkiller all over the plot (and mine if its a windy day) once a year and never actually get it under control.

[roitelet]

I hate rotavators with a passion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As the others have said they increase the number of weeds.

My solution is to cover the ground work on a small area at a, time double digging.

I have converted a 6 x 15m area of field into an almost weed free plot by this method on heavy clay and flint. It's is slow but worth while in the long run. I have come to the conclusion that quick fixes are really more trouble than they are worth because you have to go on and on with more quick fixes. Do it right the first time and the problems are reduced.

Double digging is wonderful for the waist line and once you get into the swing of it it really isn't such hard work. I am female, 5'3" and a light weight, not to mention not in the first flush of youth, so get the spade and fork out and get started.

Best of luck

[pigletwillie]

Ahh but there lies the rub Two sheds.

If you hit it properly there is no need to remove the roots as they are all dead. After I did the glysophate and rotovate treatment on my second plot, when the beds were forked over any big stuff was just lifted out but most was left to rot down and by the time the first crops were lifted it had pretty much gone making the process very easy.

I must say that the glysophate has only been used once on each plot and has not been used since. Your neighbours are irresponsible for spraying as they do and should be brought to hand especially if they are damaging your plot. Used responsibly and properly, its a one hit wonder, cultivation then keeps the annuals and any odd perennial under control from then on. There is no reason at all to spray them, a hoe is the best tool for that.

Used properly, the above combination certainly is not a quick fix, well it is quick but its not a botch job and should need no further fixes provided you cultivate the plot.

Once your ground is clear its the maintenance that makes your plot, getting as much organic matter into the soil makes it very easy to remove any weeds that do grow as the soil becomes very friable and they just pull out with hardly any effort. I can now dig my beds after two years without having to use my feet on the spade rather than still be clearing them.

The options are there, none has the bragging rights of being the only option, its down to your situation, time constraints etc and make an informed choice from that.