Why the secrecy?

[Thelma Sanders]

I usually get my seed in Wyevale's 50p a packet end of season sale, so no silly prices paid here lol

[Potstubsdustbins]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Like Thelma I shop around and grow both OP and F1 what ever best suits my purpose.

[Alison]

Their long term aim is to get growers out of the good habit of seed saving and buy seeds every year

Of course it is, they exist to make a profit, if we all saved all our seeds they would go out of business. It's not a con, nothing is hidden, it's just business. Personally I save seeds for similar reasons to yourself but I'm not expecting seed companies (with the exception of Real Seeds) to support he on this.

[Potstubsdustbins]

Another thought crosses my mind, if these companies went out of business who would then be bring on the new varieties etc?

[beeterforit]

Seed companies have existed and profited for hundreds of years some save seed some buy that will never change
I do understand that profits have to be made its the simple" greed" that is now the accepted way that sticks out like a sore thumb.Cucumber seeds £1 each for example
Purchased by seed companies from wholesalers ...then put in their own packets and marked thus

[veggiechicken]

Its a circle - if people weren't prepared to pay "£1" a seed, they wouldn't be sold at that price. Either development of new varieties would stop through lack of funding or the retail price would have to be reduced, which would probably slow/stop the breeding of new varieties.
Nobody is forced to buy F1 seeds, just as nobody is forced to buy a Ferrari. There are plenty of alternatives available. Its a question of choice and, in my view, we are fortunate to have that choice.
There would be many who would complain if there was no choice

[Kristen]

Cucumber seeds £1 each for example

Sorry, but I just don't see what is wrong with that or how you classify that as greed - even if you know what the costs are to the company.

Maybe it is very expensive to produce F1 all-female Cucumber seeds? or the breeding program to create all-female flowering plants was very expensive? or one company has been very clever and no one else has been able to reproduce that science, so that company is reaping the rewards of their ingenuity? ... and in the latter case quite possibly that company is, right now, ploughing back those profits into breeding other useful improved varieties.

Even if they are sat in a luxury home on a Caribbean Island enjoying their money I still don't have a problem with it! They took the financial risk to develop a product that people like me want.

No one is forced to buy the seeds - other cheaper F1 varieties, and O/P varieties, are available. For folk that want female-only flowering plants (I certainly do, I definitely don't have the time to remove male flowers ever day) they can choose to pay the price.

If no one bought the seed the company would either reduce the price or, if the production costs are astronomic, which for all I know they might be, it would become uneconomical to produce and the company would stop selling it.

I have absolutely no issue with people who want to avoid these sophisticated breeding programs and stick to O/P and Heritage varieties - there are various degrees from totally Organic through careful breeding assisting nature right up to fully embracing GM, and I expect we all sit somewhere on that scale, and as I said before I do agree that the gene pool needs preserving and I admire people who actively grow such varieties and save their own seed etc.

IMHO there are some F1 varieties that offer no benefit, but of the ones I grow there is significant advantage to me as a regular amateur grower who does not have huge amounts of time to spend raising for for my family. F1 varieties help me to risk less crop failure to disease, less to poor summer weather, and I get a decent yield so all in all I have a better chance of producing food for my family (we grow about 80% of the veg that we eat). If I didn't have the benefit of selective breeding I would be much more hard pressed to achieve that - I would need more time & more land to achieve the same objective.

I think its a similar argument to the breeding programs for Cereal crops that were instigated after WWII. I remember in the 60's and 70's Wheat yields doubling and more, due to breeding programs. I don't see any reason to go back to the old types of Wheat - much taller so prone to falling over and lodging, much lower yields and thus much higher prices, more fossil fuels needs per tonne of harvest and so on.

[Potstubsdustbins]

Can you let me know where you pay a £1 each for cumber seed.........................it is somewhere I would like to avoid, I manage to by my F1 cumber seed for 50/60p each

[beeterforit]

Thompson and Morgan seed catalogue page 60 bella F1 4 seeds £3.99 I would not buy these but many do just 1 example.................taking the "p"

[maverick451]

I ashamed to say this but I paid £3.59 for 5 cucumber seeds called mini greenfinger.

Last season I bought a plant of this and it was absolutely brilliant so I just couldnt resist, what I plan to do next year is althought its an F1 is to keep the seeds and see if I can de-hybridise it.

[beeterforit]

I hope they all flourish at that price
One day there will only be F1s for sale as predicted 25 years ago
I would ban them all if it was up to me

[veggiechicken]

I would ban them all if it was up to me

Thought you might

[Kristen]

Can you let me know where you pay a £1 each for cumber seed.........................it is somewhere I would like to avoid, I manage to by my F1 cumber seed for 50/60p each

These are indoor/greenhouse cucumbers that only produce Female flowers (the type where male flowers must be removed because if the fruit is pollinated it tastes bitter, rather than Ridge/outdoor type cucumbers which need pollination to produce fruit so no special requirements)

Thompson and Morgan seed catalogue page 60 bella F1 4 seeds £3.99 I would not buy these but many do just 1 example.................taking the "p"

But its not just one example is it? You've picked the most extreme example that you can and just keep posting that this one example means that all F1 seed is outrageously priced, totally unnecessary, and there will shortly only be F1 seed available - as predicted 25 years ago

It is patently not the case. Lots of non F1 seed readily available from the main seed companies, and companies like Real Seed have had a thriving business for years selling only non-F1 seed. If the world is going to have only F1 seed it clearly isn't going to be any time soon ...

There are also lots of people here saying that some F1 seed makes a real difference to them, a fact that you keep choosing to ignore.

All strength to your elbow that you only want to grow O/P seed, but if your statements (for which you have provided no evidence that seed companies are purely profiteering from F1 seed, nor that there are no benefits) go unchallenged then Newbies here may assume that your view it the only one. Hence I reply to your posts and put the contrary view. People can make up their own minds, but you repeatedly saying that F1 seed is outrageously priced and has no benefit doesn't, by itself, make it true.

[veggiechicken]

We've established that there are valid reasons why information on the parentage of F1 seeds is not available on the internet.
We've also established that there are differing views about the perceived value of F1 seeds.
This discussion has run its course and I am therefore, closing the thread.