Out of date veg seeds question

[gardening_gal]

If seeds are out of date, does that mean they:

a) simply might not germinate

b) might germinate but if they do they may be weak plants

c) if they can manage to germinate at all they will be normal plants

d) combination of the above and 'who knows'

I have several out of date veg seed packets. I don't want to bin them but I also don't have a lot of space to chuck 'em in and see, so I'd like to at least risk assess first iyswim.

[Knight of Albion]

If foil wrapped they should be alright after the 'Best by'.... However, the problem is if they fail or produce only a few seedlings, Mother Nature will have stolen a march on you. i.e. you'll have lost a few weeks of an already short growing season.
Try some in a seed tray in your kitchen. The heat will get them going if there's life in them and take it from there one way or the other.

[WendyC]

Think of the date as a "best before" date rather than a "use by date". If seeds are in unopened foil packets they will keep ages. Once opened the seeds start to lose their viability. You can check whether they are worth sowing by putting a few on damp kitchen paper and see if they sprout. Parsnips are notorious for being difficult to get to germinate, other than from a fresh packet. I also find lettuce loses it's viability quite quickly.

[leonmc0708]

if they germinate there will be no difference to an in date seed.

they lose their viability" which is ability to germinate - if you can get them to do this however you wont have any issues with the plants.

In my experience.

Carrots and PArsips for instance anthing older than a year and you have an issue.

If you start in modules/pugs etc then its ok as you can see before planting to final position.

If you plant in the ground you will have patchy rows with gaps.

try "pre germinating" the seeds on a wet piece of toilet tissue somewhere warm maybe ?

[Alison]

if they germinate there will be no difference to an in date seed.

they lose their viability" which is ability to germinate - if you can get them to do this however you wont have any issues with the plants.

In my experience.

Carrots and PArsips for instance anthing older than a year and you have an issue.

If you start in modules/pugs etc then its ok as you can see before planting to final position.

If you plant in the ground you will have patchy rows with gaps.

try "pre germinating" the seeds on a wet piece of toilet tissue somewhere warm maybe ?

Agree totally about the viability thing, the manufacturers have to be able to guarantee a high percentage germination so play it very save - and of course they live in hope that we'll throw the packet away the second the date passes......... Sell by dates generally really annoy me but I know plenty of people that don't use common sense anymore and will throw away perfectly good food but that's another story.

Anyway, back to the seeds, most will be fine for years after they say but if you're not sure then germinate a few on damp tissue paper so that you can check before you do the main sowing. The only thing I disagree with is that carrots won't germinate the following year, have some growing nicely at the moment that are 3 years past their date and have been open since they were bought. Surprised me slightly and now I've got to thin them more than I'd have liked but hey ho, and early carrot crop is never bad

[Kristen]

I know plenty of people that don't use common sense anymore and will throw away perfectly good food but that's another story.

My teenage kids seem to think that eating anything past its sell by date will kill them. If that is representative of the next generation then a lot of perfectly good food - EVEN more than now - is going to be wasted.

"Does it smell all right?"
"Yes, but its past its date"
"Does it look all right?"
"Yes, but its past its date"
"Does it taste all right?"
"Yes, but its past its date"
etc. etc.

I think that if the germination rate is low its not worth sowing it. Once seed gets to that point I find that the seeds that do germinate are less vigorous than they would have been originally. They are probably, therefore, going to be more disease prone as a result, and probably crop later / less. If its the last seed of a cherished variety of self-saved seed its worth growing them just to be able to save some more seed, of course, but other than that I would go with some fresher seed.

That said, most things (not Parsnips) germinate for years. Ideally store them in an airtight container in the fridge, as that will prolong their viability. On the potting shed bench/shelf in bright summer sunshine, and damp in winter, would be the worst place.

[leonmc0708]

Agree totally about the viability thing, the manufacturers have to be able to guarantee a high percentage germination so play it very save - and of course they live in hope that we'll throw the packet away the second the date passes......... Sell by dates generally really annoy me but I know plenty of people that don't use common sense anymore and will throw away perfectly good food but that's another story.

Anyway, back to the seeds, most will be fine for years after they say but if you're not sure then germinate a few on damp tissue paper so that you can check before you do the main sowing. The only thing I disagree with is that carrots won't germinate the following year, have some growing nicely at the moment that are 3 years past their date and have been open since they were bought. Surprised me slightly and now I've got to thin them more than I'd have liked but hey ho, and early carrot crop is never bad

Wasn't saying they wouldn't work - but less do, carrots and parsnips at a much higher rate than most others in my experience deteriorate

[Plot10]

Wasn't saying they wouldn't work - but less do, carrots and parsnips at a much higher rate than most others in my experience deteriorate

Although last year I found some Parsnip seed in the shed that had been open for 2years. Rather than chuck them out I sowed them in a row at the edge of my onion bed and had my first decent crop of Parsnips (onions had white rot though, don't think there's a connection).

Right now I've got some Parsnip seeds in a plastic tray with damp kitchen paper to see if they germinate.

I've never had much success with carrots even with fresh seed and what germinates gets eaten by carrot fly (even covered) so I don't think I'll bother this year, they're cheap enough to buy.

Not sure why I've spelt Parsnips with a capital "P"

[Alison]

Wasn't saying they wouldn't work - but less do, carrots and parsnips at a much higher rate than most others in my experience deteriorate

Sorry, didn't meant it to come over like that, was trying to make the point that carrots don't deteriorate anything like as quick as parsnips (although somebody above has evidence that it's not always the case with parsnips either ). I normally sow about three carrot seeds (or parsnip for that matter) at the spacings I eventually want and so only have to thin out a maximum of two seedlings. Thinking that the seeds were pretty old and that I was sowing early led me to sow about twice my normal number and am having to thin out twice as much which isn't great with carrots. I expected less but didn't get it.

[Kristen]

they're [Carrots] cheap enough to buy.

Ah, but then you just get varieties suitable for giving to Dobbin. Home Grown you can choose what variety you want - like Sweet Candle ... Yum!

Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Hj67XhZVCw

Watch out you don't strain yourself harvesting them

[Alison]

Ah, but then you just get varieties suitable for giving to Dobbin. Home Grown you can choose what variety you want - like Sweet Candle ... Yum!

I never used to be that fussed about carrots until I started growing my own, even when they're a bit of a funny shape with a few bad bits to cut out they're still far superior than the ones in the shops (and bizarrely don't seem to stain my hands as much when peeling either). I love the different colours too so always tend to grow some orange, yellow and purple ones.

[Kristen]

I love the different colours too so always tend to grow some orange, yellow and purple ones.

I've gone off growing non-standard colours (even if Carrots were never Orange in days of yore ...)

Kids seem to think that there is something wrong with them, and don't eat them [as much as "correctly coloured" ones]. Initially they like the fact that they are weird, but IME that soon wears off to be replaced with "They don't taste right" ... not even sure that adults eat my Yellow Autumn fruiting Raspberries in the same quantity as the Red ones - of course no one can tell the difference, flavour-wise, with their eyes closed

[Potstubsdustbins]

I have packets of seed some 4 years old that are still viable.

I suppose it depends what seeds they are and how much room you have to play with.

I sowing Lollo Rosso lettuce this year that is 3 year old, I mean you get 1100 seeds in a packet so they last for ages. This year they are sown in modules 4 seeds to the module and darned if I am having to thin out the seedlings.

[ancee]

Why would they think that anybody could possibly need 1100 lettuces??!!

[Potstubsdustbins]

I thing it may go back to the days of yore when some allotmenteers would just walk down the row and sprinkle them straight from the packet. Would love to see what happened if they had a good year.