hybrid V heirloom

[muslimgrower]

i have marshalls seed catoluge and i was just looking at it...


there are more f1 seeds per page than heirloom, and evey year the f1 will increase and then you choice will be more limited...

[muslimgrower]

the seeds from new hybrids are still viable, and sometimes the next generations do settle down and come true, it just takes time.
and for us as well with some varieties, as I've already said

so how long would a home gardner need to wait untill the f1 settle down ??? maybe 4 generations, so 4 growing seasons to sow the seeds and then let it flower and then collect the seeds and sow etc for 4 seasons before you get viable seeds.. ??

with heirloom as soon as you gather the seeds you can sow seeds again next season and get the same quality crop ?? ( weather permitting of course))

[Alison]

some of the breeding does help the gardener though doesn't it? I'm thinking rust resistant leeks and canker resistant parsnips to name just a few.
Which I for one am very grateful for

That's why I said that not all of it was just to the benefit of the commercial grower . However the commercial guys are always going to be the main gainers as they're the ones that spend most of the money as they grow more, any improvements (perceived or real, many OP types are naturally resistant to things and will often modify themselves naturally to your conditions over the years) we might get are accidental bonuses and not what the main reason it's being done. Believe me, it doesn't bother me that you and many others grow F1s, as I've already said, I grow a few selected ones but I don't like the estate agent type speak that comes in the catalogues which is all spin.

[Thelma Sanders]

Muslimgrower - You disagree with potstubsdustbins then

Following 2Sheds lead I have just had a quick glance at Marshalls & Suttons catalogues well under 50% F1.

You choose which seeds you want to buy, and everyone else will do the same.

I can see some positives to hybridisation, and you can only see negatives - so we must disagree on this one

[Potstubsdustbins]

You must have a different Marshalls catalogue to me.

20 Onions & shallots 4 F1.

9 Broad bean No F1.

9 Runner bean No F1.

10 Dwarf French bean No F1.

5 Climbing French bean No F1.

6 Beetroot 1F1.

7 PSB 1 F1.

If they are trying to force F1s down our throat someone needs to have an urgent word with their marketing people.

Colin

[Alison]

so how long would a home gardner need to wait untill the f1 settle down ??? maybe 4 generations, so 4 growing seasons to sow the seeds and then let it flower and then collect the seeds and sow etc for 4 seasons before you get viable seeds.. ??

To be fair that's not quite true, yes you need to grow on again to get a stable strain but that doesn't mean you can't eat them as normal. For example if you're growing out an F1 tomato, you'd eat the tomatoes sown from the saved seeds and then save some from the plants you liked the best ie selecting the ones you want. This is the same as for OP seed saving (I'm not using the term heirloom as I'm not talking about all OP plants). Where things differ is that the OP ones will already be stable and so you know what you're getting whereas the F2s might differ considerably.

[muslimgrower]

You must have a different Marshalls catalogue to me.

20 Onions & shallots 4 F1.

9 Broad bean No F1.

9 Runner bean No F1.

10 Dwarf French bean No F1.

5 Climbing French bean No F1.

3 out 0f 4 melons are f1

13 out of 25 cabbages are f1

6 Beetroot 1F1.

7 PSB 1 F1.


Colin

i have the 2012 kitchen garden catolouge ???


u dint mention the cauliflower (pages 46 ,47, 48)/ spring/autumn/savoy cabbages/courgettes/cucumbers/marrows/melons/sweetcorn.



10 out of the 11 cauliflowers are f1 ?

4 out of the 6 courgettes are f1

7 out of the 9 cucumbers are f1

13 of the 25 cabagges are f1?

3 out of 4 melons are f1

3 out of 5 bell peppers are f1

3 out of 5 sweetcorn are f1

[Two_Sheds]

^ so don't buy from Marshalls then They ARE a very "commercial" company.

It's been an interesting thread, but is beginning to go round in circles.

There are loads and LOADS of other seed suppliers. You aren't forced to buy F1

[muslimgrower]

^ Thats not the point. i am saying it isnt a 50/50% split between heriloom and f1 so were is the choice ??

so are t&G, suttons, unwins etc... all commerical companies ??


well yes you are in the long run, when its all f1`s.. every year they are increasing, do you have the old catoluges from maybe 4 years ago?? well take a look at then and now

[rustylady]

I'm beginning to think that you are just making mischief Muslimgrower. Hybridisation has been going on since the beginning of time and occurs naturally (Survival of the fittest and all that).

[muslimgrower]

I'm beginning to think that you are just making mischief Muslimgrower. Hybridisation has been going on since the beginning of time and occurs naturally (Survival of the fittest and all that).

sorry if you feel inuslted. my intention isnt to make mischief.

[Snadger]

I grow both.
I disagree that all F1's lack taste.
I grow ' F1 Sweetheart' cabbage which is very tasty. To offset the cost of the seed I 'notc'h the top of the stem when harvesting and usually get up to four small heads forming later in the year.

Clubroot resistant cauli's and cabbage are both F1's and can allow people with clubroot in their land to at least get a crop.
F1 mildew resistant swedes are also a boon, along with F1 Golden Bear white rot resistant onions. F1 Shirley tomatoes are particularily good as well.

I have tried heritage brussel sprouts this year and failed, so its back to F1 Trafalgar and F1 Waterloo for me again this year.

I do grow open pollinated varieties wherever i can, to keep the costs down and enable me to save seed. but With F1's I can usually guarantee a crop, whereas the others are hitty missy.
I am all for embracing technology to some extent wherever possible. If Homo sapiens hadn't moved with the times we would all still be sitting in caves eating mammoth steaks and going 'ug'!

[veggiechicken]

Anyone who has a problem with F1 seeds should buy from small businesses like Real Seeds and ignore the larger companies - end of story, as far as I'm concerned!

[muslimgrower]

Anyone who has a problem with F1 seeds should buy from small businesses like Real Seeds and ignore the larger companies - end of story, as far as I'm concerned!

i dont have issues with any grower buying f1.. i just wanted to see what others had to say about the rise of f1 `s !!!!

[rustylady]

sorry if you feel inuslted. my intention isnt to make mischief.

I don't feel insulted, but I wonder where this thread is going. There are plenty of heritage seeds available. Try some of the other catalogues, e.g. http://www.realseeds.co.uk/