Effect of lime mortar on soil

[Terryr]

Hi Folks

I have had the misfortune to have a 10 foot high very old sandstone wall collapse across my garden including my vegetable plot during the recent storm. My question is that when it is all repaired and I have my walled garden back will the inevitable lime mortar rubble mixed in with my soil be of any benefit to my normally acid soil? Or do I need to remove it all?
This may not be the correct place but can anyone briefly tell me how to post pictures/ picture links.

Be good to gardeners.

Terryr

[Two_Sheds]

tell me how to post pictures/ picture links.

How to add photos to a post

and another one: http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gra...ing_29565.html

I use resizr.com to reduce my photo size, it's quick, easy and free

[Two_Sheds]

will the inevitable lime mortar rubble mixed in with my soil be of any benefit to my normally acid soil?

The lumps of mortar will be too large to have been absorbed into the soil. I can't see the rubble being of any harm, it's just a nuisance. I take lumps (rocks, pebbles) out of my soil, esp. the root beds

[snohare]

For once, I find I disagree with Two Sheds, at least a little bit. Generally by the time a lime mortar wall collapses much of the lime has already dissolved out of the mortar, leaving a very sandy grit - this is largely what weakens it - but the wall will probably still have intact lime in the centre which is in varying stages of decomposition, generally not in very large lumps, and that will have the effect of liming the soil. Only problem is that it will be patchy.
Might be worth keeping the mortar aside as you clear the rubble away, and crushing and strewing it on your plot. Any mortar that you see still stuck to the stone has lime in it, in a form that will dissolve into the soil. (Unlike modern cement mortar, where the lime is chemically bound and will not breakdown.) Being softer than modern mortars, it is easy to remove from stones with a wire brush or small hammer, and then crush. Just be sure to wear safety goggles when brushing etc, you do not want it in your eyes or lungs !

[Snadger]

If you have an acid soil anyway, lime mortar will certinly not harm your soil and will probably improve it.
Just as an aside, I once asked a stonemason why he added lime to his mix. Apparently if a cement alone mix was used it would be much stronger than the stone and crack away! You probably already knew this snippet from the wooly archives of my brain anyway........but hey ho.

I remember at my first house burying a load of plaster board I'd pulled out of the house in a corner of the garden with six inches of topsoil aded to the top of the heap. Just out of daftness I planted broad beans in the heap. I've never been able to get such a good crop of beans since!

[veg man]

I don't think you have anything to worry about the amount of lime left in the mortar will be very little.
When you think about it, to lime your soil you would use 250/500 grams per sq mt. I don't think there would be any where near that amount left in the mortar from the wall. Just rake off the large pieces this is where any usable lime would be.I think you would be fine..

[snohare]

500g per square metre ? I doubt if I use a quarter that.
Hmm, maybe that's why my brassicas always succumb so readily to slugs and other pests...although until I got the netting for them this year, I suppose there was never any point worrying anyway, what with cabbage whites.
My understanding of the lime mortar/cement mortar conundrum Snadger is that as long as walls were built of natural stone, that stone would expand and contract with changes in temperature, and the mortar used had to be malleable enough to cope with that. (If you look at old walls patched with cement, this is why the cement often peels off the stone leaving a uniform gap.) Once bricks came into use, because they had been fired there was no longer this problem, and hence the much stronger cement mortar could be used, enabling all sorts of new shapes of brickwork to be built.
I found all this out the hard way fixing an old shed wall in a conservation zone...what a bodge job nightmare !

[veg man]

Check this link how to lime, Lime and liming / Royal Horticultural Society
i use this amount helps with club root

[snohare]

Thanks very much Vegman, a timely and apposite reminder I was much in need of.

[Snadger]

I think we should mention that liming of land is ususlly only required on acid land and shouldn't be done as a matter of course without knowing what your soil ph is. Often newbies follow a crop rotation that involves liming the brassica patch when because of the exusting alkalinity of there soil, it doesn't really require it.

[Two_Sheds]

... much stronger cement mortar could be used, enabling all sorts of new shapes of brickwork to be built (

Here in Norfolk they had a kind of wall (flint & lime mortar) that took weeks to set. Let me have a google:

this is the best I could find

[Terryr]

Hi guys

Thsnks for all of your input. That has been really informative. Just heard that my insurance are not going to stump up for the cost. Citing wear and tear of a 100 year old wall which they say we should have maintained. How the heck you are meant to do that with an old 10 ft sandstone wall like I had I don't know. However this is a gardening forum. I have started in a small way to seperate the stone from the mortar and it is as commented by others here, very crumbly and griitty. I will keep some of it, break it down and get in into my soil. Thanks again for all the interest. Now I need to find a good stonemason in the Paisley area who works cheap.

Terryr

[donnakebab]

This may sound naive but maybe there is a nearby college that specialises in building skill that would relish training youngsters in traditional skills.. Probably talking off the top of my head but if I was in the same situation I'd investigate the possibility

[Two_Sheds]

my insurance are not going to stump up for the cost.

That does surprise me ~ they're usually so giving, so reasonable ...