confused about carrots

[salome2001]

My situation: totally new plot hacked out of six foot high nettles. Ex chicken run until a year or 2 ago (then neglected). I've dug all the nettle roots (and as much of the broken glass that I could )and dug over the soil and made raised beds and am currently trying to get some organic matter into the soil as it is compacted clay (what wasn't nettle was under black plastic for years). It is really waterlogging in this rain.

I have: some bagged sterilised "horse manure compost", some rotted horse manure and some B&Q growbags (going cheap at our local) and was thinking of digging something into the beds... BUT everything I read says not to fertilise your root veg beds...

So my question is: should I try to get some organic matter into it? and if so, what of the above (or an alternative suggestion) would people use? I am assuming I should probably save the pony poo for my pumpkins...

Thanks, salome

[bazzaboy]

Hi Salome, I think you�re thinking along completely the right lines� How large is this area, if it was previously a chicken run it�s possibly still quite rich but sounds a bit claggy and waterlogged. As you note, not the best for root crops which prefer a lighter sandier well-drained situation�. I usually grow carrots in containers anyway � can control the soil and tends to discourage carrot fly, easier to protect� So that might be the answer to the carrot problem this year.... For the main patch as you describe it I think I�d go mainly for potatoes this year, they like it fairly rich so you can manure it now and the digging to get them both in and out and �earthing up� etc will help the consistency of the soil and you can keep removing glass/stones etc as you go - it�s a lengthy process but you�ll win in the end. And yes the pumpkins will appreciate concentrated pony poo on a patch (weather it a bit if pos) as would marrows/courgettes/squashes etc. Sounds an interesting adventure and potentially a very productive patch.
The other thing I think I'd do is ask the advice of a local gardener who can actually look at the site and feel the soil etc.... it's quite difficult to decide what's best solely from a description but you seem to be well aware of many of the issues.... Good luck with it, you sound well on the way to winning through!

[Aberdeenplotter]

BUT everything I read says not to fertilise your root veg beds...

Hi Salome,

The reason of course being that planting root crops into fresh manure causes them to fork so instead of getting one main tap root the probability is that you will get a multitude of smaller useless roots.

If you plan growing roots this year, I would do so in the raised beds you have made but I would seriously recommend that you use your first year to try to "clean" the plot by planting potatoes. You do the work though not the spuds. By digging over the ground, setting up trenches, filling them in again when planting the spuds, earthing the spuds up again as they grow and finally lifting the spuds, you are constantly keeping the soil on the move making it very difficult for weeds to get a foothold and of course it is much easier removing any residual pernicious weeds. The shaws or haulms will also deprive of light any weeds that do manage to germinate so an extra benefit. The following year, you will have a plot fit to grow anything.

[salome2001]

hi Bazza

the other allotment holders on the site have a devil of a time with carrots!!! I tried containers last year but used MP compost and got some very interesting carrots (unfortunately the 30cm high containers did nothing to deter carrot fly).

The root veg beds planned are two 2.4m x 1.2m beds, which I planned to interplant with spring onions and leeks

AP- I have a good portion of the plot earmarked for just the potato planting you suggest... I'm still getting to about 3/5 of the plot... The beds I have made have already been dug over and with the exception of this bed, given the cardboard and pony poo treatment for winter.

[daylily]

Carrots do grow well in cheap, multipurpose compost in my experience. And cover them as in other carrot thread.

[Helgalush]

You could try to raise your carrot containers a couple of feet off the ground. I think carrot fly do not fly higher than around 20" so if you raise the containers they should be ok, I have not had a problem with carrot fly by growing this way (but then I have only been growing them a couple of years).

[scarletrunner]

You could try to raise your carrot containers a couple of feet off the ground. I think carrot fly do not fly higher than around 20" so if you raise the containers they should be ok, I have not had a problem with carrot fly by growing this way (but then I have only been growing them a couple of years).

.Carrot fly can fly as high as they like if there is little or no wind,covering crops with mesh is the safest way to go.

[snohare]

If the other carrot growers have problems with carrot fly, you can ignore the idea that they don't fly any more than 18 inches high ! Think about it - if a gust of 3mph hits a fly that size, where's it going to go...anywhere the wind wants, is the answer. If there are other plant species around that they will breed and feed on, then twice a year you will have a legion of little 'uns keen to come chomp on that lovely fragrant bruised vegetation their antennae are so good at homing in on.
There are areas where there just isn't much of a problem, but that I think is pure luck.
You could try decoys like alliums, tagetes or salsify but they all seem to have mixed results; the only sure cure is to cover religiously with netting of the right mesh.
As far as soil is concerned, mine is clay (with debris ) and my aim next year is to have a lot more sand in the soil I grow my roots in. To that end I am intending to dig in quite a few bags of sand. I know it seems daft to add something that has no nutrients, but I want it to be much more free draining, they do seem to really like that even at the expense of nutrients.
But for next year, I will be absolutely certain not to have netting with holes in it...not keen on the protein supplement, they say revenge is sweet but not when you see it wriggling on the way to your mouth...

[Helgalush]

Aha, like I said only been growing a couple of years so I have obviously just been lucky and therefore taken what I read as gospel. Happy to stand corrected - you cant beat the voice of experience.

[zazen999]

To that end I am intending to dig in quite a few bags of sand. I know it seems daft to add something that has no nutrients, but I want it to be much more free draining, they do seem to really like that even at the expense of nutrients.

No, I advocate digging in sand where the root veg are to go; if on clay. Just adds a bit more drainage to the mix. Root veg, being in contact with the soil, need much less nutrients anyway as they take them directly whereas toms for example, need to hoist the nutrients all the way to the fruit to utilise them.

[salome2001]

so... perhaps the way ahead is to dig in a couple of bags of sand and cheap B&Q value compost (which I assume is mainly organic material with very little nutrient?)

[vegnut]

Sounds about right salome. I'm sure i read somewhere that commercial growers use nearly all sand to get the carrots so clean and uniform.
I use micromesh over a frame i built and not one carrot root fly last year.

[cwgardenservices]

firstly i would test the soil PH + trace elements a few of clients just plant what they want as the soil looks ok and then they grow a bit odd shape or not at all.
so test..test then test again. i test ours 3 times a year and add lime , fert, organic matter according to whats needed.

on the carrot front i have always planted then next to onions as they say carrot flies dont like the smell of oinoins ( not sure if true but it seems to work for me in last 10 years )
i always slightly over sow ( not thickly but say 2 rows if i want say 1 row if i can )
thats so i dont have to thin out much as this also creates the smell that the carrot fly loves.

at the end of the day just give it a go and just put down your first year as a test. Spuds do well in most soils or just plant a few of everything they will tell if it works or not.

[Two_Sheds]

I've never tested my soil's pH, ever. I found out what grows through trial and error: my sandy soil is great for carrots, but we are plagued by carrot root fly, it gets through the debris netting too, determined little boggers

[SarzWix]

I've never tested my soil either!

I add sand and spent compost (from the pots that my early potatoes and tomatoes were in) to the bed that my roots are going in. I have clay-ey soil too, and have had great carrots and 'snips for the last couple of years doing this. Some still fork due to hitting odd stones etc, but enough don't. Enviromesh/insect netting is definitely the way to go to keep the carrot-fly off. It may seem an expensive way of doing it, but you should get years and years of use from it. I have 2 lengths of it, one for the carrot bed and one for the brassica bed, and it's been well worth the �20 or so I spent on it.