Still can't get my head around seed saving (open polinated, none hybrids)...

[chris]

I've read in the seed saving circles' posts that seeds need to be open polinated non hybrids - fine, I understand what that is, but what I don't get is that these seeds that are sown will be slightly different to their parents? As they could have been crossed by bees/whatnot... so surely that makes these OP seeds a hybrid?

Can someone clarify please? I know it'd be different to an F1, as these are done in labs, etc - but if I'm growing say leeks to save the seeds from, and so is my neighbour - but they're different varieties, then surely I can't label my seed saved as the type of the parent plant? I'm not - but just an example so it's easier for me to understand!

Thanks!

[lynda66]

if 2 different varieties are crossed, then yes the first lot of seeds will become an f1 hybrid ... though most of them should be from the same plants .... they aren't just made in labs ..... this might help

YouTube - Genetics For Dummies

[rustylady]

Basically, as Lynda said. Open pollinated seeds are hybrids unless only one cultivar of a particular plant is grown so no other varieties can influence reproduction. Expensive seed sold as F1 hybrids are specific crosses (chosen male and female to produce a particular type of plant).

[lynda66]

Basically, as Lynda said. Open pollinated seeds are hybrids unless only one cultivar of a particular plant is grown so no other varieties can influence reproduction. Expensive seed sold as F1 hybrids are specific crosses (chosen male and female to produce a particular type of plant).

and isolated from the chances of any other plant pollinating them

[zazen999]

Yes, they will be hybrids.

We are all hybrids!

What you will get is some seeds cross easily [like pumpkins] and some don't but your leeks might well cross unless you have grown them in isolation. What you may get is a cross between both yours and your neighbours.....but next year, you would select the stronger ones and not save from the weaker ones thus you will start selecting yourself from your home grown seeds. Then, give some to your neighbours and you can both start selecting for your local area.

The companies who make F1 hybrids available are very secretive about their hybridisation and will keep it a secret so that if people like the veg they can only buy from the company and not save their own. I've known of some companies who have named their seeds F1s when they actually aren't - just to stop people bothering to save them.

[coreopsis]

Glad that you asked that chrismarks.
All the seeds will be hybrids then up to some degree.The question is if you'll get better or worse hybrid.
Which ones are more prone to cross?I wanted to save some tomato and chilli seeds but there were several varieties in the greenhouse.Is it worth it or not?

Zazen,I was wondering how comes that the same variety is classified as F1 at one seed merchant while the other doesn't say a word about hybrid.I used to think that everything not desribed as F1 is open pollinated variety,now I'm not so sure

[taff]

tomatoes and chillis are not very prone to crossing because they're self pollinating...

[zazen999]

Glad that you asked that chrismarks.
All the seeds will be hybrids then up to some degree.The question is if you'll get better or worse hybrid.
Which ones are more prone to cross?I wanted to save some tomato and chilli seeds but there were several varieties in the greenhouse.Is it worth it or not?

Zazen,I was wondering how comes that the same variety is classified as F1 at one seed merchant while the other doesn't say a word about hybrid.I used to think that everything not desribed as F1 is open pollinated variety,now I'm not so sure

Who knows what deals the merchants do behind the scenes and what they want to mention! You are right though, it doesn't always say so you are always taking a chance unless you know for sure. Flum is de-hybridising some F1 Sungold's to see what she can get in terms of a lovely tasting tomato.

With chilis and peppers; sometimes if you save seed you get a chili with little heat; but it seems that the peppers are usually ok they just look odd.

I've not had any sweet peppers that were saved and turned hot; not yet anyway. It depends on the male/female-ness of the cross and which type of capsicum the parents are.

It gets so complicated the further down you go!

[Two_Sheds]

Which ones are more prone to cross?

Have a read of this excellent guide: How To Save Seed

[Two_Sheds]

tomatoes and chillis are not very prone to crossing because they're self pollinating...

Most modern varieties of tomato are self pollinating, and will not cross
Chillies are also self-pollinating, but cross readily (confusing dot com?)

[chris]

I understand genetics well, but I think it's more to the point of in the seed circle thread, I think (?) - apologies if I'm wrong but zaz mentioned that they must be open pollinated non hybrids, which is fine, but if you grow them outdoors are you isolating them specifically for the seed saving circle? -- maybe I should have asked that

The leek query was just an example as I was reading the seed saving circle about someone saving a variety. I guess I was thinking if the seeds you sow were openly pollinated then they may not be true to their parents exactly

[zazen999]

No seed will be true to their parents exactly; the only way to get true genetically identical 'babies' is if you propagate from the cells of the parent, ie by cuttings or dividing.

I said Open pollinated non hybrids; so that we avoid disaster next year when [for example] people save some F1 Sungolds and nobody gets F1 Sungolds next year.

Have you had a read of the real seeds guide, posted here and on the original seed circle thread?

[chris]

Yup.. I did do - I think I was confusing myself as the clouds are parting and I can see I've answered my own question heh. Reading the real seeds site after browsing their site was what started me off pondering

Thanks for the clarification though peeps!

[coreopsis]

Thanks for the link TS.One jar with Aurora tomato seeds already on the windowsill

[chris]

Most modern varieties of tomato are self pollinating, and will not cross
Chillies are also self-pollinating, but cross readily (confusing dot com?)

Is there a difference between self fertile and self pollinating? - Does a self pollinating plant need insects/wind to pollinate - or can it just set fruit and vice versa.

TIA!