F1 Varieties

[becky250970]

Hi Helpful folks

Am I right in thinking that you can't save the seeds from F1's, or did I dream it?

[ginger ninger]

You can save the seeds, but they won't come true to the parent plant, I try not to grow F1 seeds because of this reason, but it could be fun to grow 1 or 2 next year to see what you end up with...you never know, you might end up with a new variety!

[piskieinboots]

you didn't really dream it - no

F1's most likely won't come true, but more importantly they may be infertile, which will be extremely disappointing for you come germination time

[becky250970]

so i guess it's a bit of a lottery then and best not to rely on saved F1 seeds. In the future I will try to not buy F1 seeds but I was new and nieve (sp), that's my excuse and I'm sticking with it...

[piskieinboots]

I think that's the best way to view it Becky - as a lottery, fun to try and see what comes up, but not to rely on them for your crops

[stupot]

Surely F1 seeds can be home-grown? If you know what the parental cross is? How would you find this out?

[Snadger]

Surely F1 seeds can be home-grown? If you know what the parental cross is? How would you find this out?

Seed merchants would be reluctant to tell you I would think?

[Snadger]

I think that's the best way to view it Becky - as a lottery, fun to try and see what comes up, but not to rely on them for your crops

Good advice methinks piskie!

[piskieinboots]

Surely F1 seeds can be home-grown? If you know what the parental cross is? How would you find this out?

....and even if you knew the parental cross I can't see how that would make infertile seed fertile

[bazzaboy]

....and even if you knew the parental cross I can't see how that would make infertile seed fertile

I think Stupot meant with fresh parental seed, Piskie, i.e. creating F1 (not F2) seed... and that's an interesting if somewhat revolutionary suggestion, we'll all end up being Gregor Mendel (the father of genetics who closely studied tens of thousands of pea plants to determine what happened when they were cross-fertilised.... so neat that he was a GYO gardener!)

But there would be several difficulties, not least having an understanding of what is going to cross with what to produce the required hybrid (you might want to cross a radish with a turnip to get a bigger radish but would it work?) and then the time and specialist facility you'd need to ensure controlled pollination without contamination... I understand a lot of F1 production has now moved to (surprise, surprise...) China - there's an interesting essay on the subject of "Vegetable Hybrid Seed Production" at
http://www.seedconsortium.org/PUC/pd...Production.pdf

There's also the valid question whether or not home gardeners want or need to produce their own F1s? F1 is generally considered of most use to the commercial grower who wants to mechanise care and cropping etc, whereas home gardeners might well prefer and benefit from crops maturing at different rates over a longer time-span.

So all in all, Stupot, interesting idea but I think I'll take the lazy route and stick with buying 'em... I find growing the darn things difficult enough... b.

[stupot]

That's an interesting article, thanks for linking it. I agree that F1s aren't necessary on our scale of growing. I would rather have my crops spaced out.

It would be nice to create your own Sungold tomato seed or an all-female F1 cucumber and share seed with friends - you could produce enough with two plants for quite a few years. This article states that the parental lines are pure breeds and this is done by inbreeding the plants for up to 10 generations - These pure lines will be under lock and key by the seed companies.

So in conclusion - growing your own F1 seeds would be relatively easy, if the parental pure lines were available to the public, which they're not. As it's mostly only cucumber, tomato and sweetcorn that I buy F1 seeds for - and this doesn't really break the bank - I won't be doing any mad plant-breeding experiments just yet.

[Flummery]

I've got F3 sungold selections this year, one or two of which will go on the the F4 generation enxt year. You can keep selecting out the best and I think they are as good as (and a darned sight cheaper) in this case than the originals. Some varieties aren't so easy to select a similar tom from. I think sungold is a bit of a con to be honest.
I've also produced an F1 pea this year but not for its own sake. I crossed Oregon Sugar Pod and the purple podded Lancashire Lad. This is just a step on the way to try and produce a purple sugar pod of my own making. It's harmless and it keeps me off street corners!

[stupot]

Well done Flum! Variety(ies) are the spice of life.

[piskieinboots]

you rock Fums

[chriscross1966]

Flum's attempts to breed a new pea had merely created a green monster..... when contacted it's creator said:

"Credulous fools!!.....Don't they realise I have created life?!!!"