Crop Rotation - Now completely confused

[Eyren]

And then my brain hurts even more - not only do I need to work out what goes with what (actually that's not too difficult) but now I'm learning that to make the best use of the space I can plant two differently timed crops in the same space . . .

It's all a learning curve - you just have to keep trying new things every year and find out what works best in your local conditions. I know a lot of the theory now, but putting it into practice... that's the tricky part!

[digthatchick]

Hi Bilbo,

I am new to growing as well and got really confused so i have decided to try and keep them together in the best way i though.

Bed 1 - Pots and carrots
Bed 2 - Radish, Onions, Leeks, Spring onions
Bed 3 - Coliflowers, broccoli, Red cabbage

Chell

I would put the Radish with the Cauli and cabbage as Radish are Brassicas

Sorry Eyren
Should have read your post first

[Alison]

I'm sowing radish with my parnsips this year - read it in a mag - apparently the idea is that the radish germinate quickly, thereby marking the row out way before the parnips come up. The radish are then harvested in time to let the parnips develop. Don't know how well it will work but it's a plan.

[Hazel at the Hill]

That's another 'ask a hundred gardeners and get 100 answers' question, Bilbo!

To put in my two penn'th, I follow John Seymour, self sufficiency guru -

plot A - limed over winter then legumes all summer followed by brassicas over winter (this will be next years misc.)
plot B - misc. crops (toms, squash, lettuce, melon) (this will be next years alliums/roots)
plot C - onions, carrots, parsnips (this will be next years spuds)
plot D - mucked over winter then spuds, followed by overwinter broad beans (this will be next years legumes)

Sorry if this muddies the waters for you...

[bazzaboy]

LOL... drowning in muddy water, glug...! Many moons ago when I had an allotment I followed as religiously as i could Geoffrey Smith's 4 plot rotation which was the BBC/guru theory at the time... - and even with spare space found it quite a tease... Now with only a medium garden I find it completely impossible not least because beds are different sizes and shapes and get quite different periods of sun in different seasons etc... So I've adopted the Snadger approach, try to mix it as best I can, have a few permanents where pos, try to find an appropriate time to add manure, lime for brassicas etc, try to predict what the plant might like and still be convenient to me.... In the end it's a compromise rather than theoretical perfection and I'm happy and grateful if something reasonably presentable (better still, edible) results... If, on top of all that, the garden can look reasonably interesting in a Joy Larkcom kinda manner all the better. b.

[snohare]

Radical but...It seems to me that the reasoning behind crop rotation is twofold, one point being that you want to make sure that the exact nutrients which each plant needs are not always coming out year after year, and the other point being that you want to limit the chances of potential diseases building up in the soil, as used to do when onion beds were the norm. So...surely if you sort out your vegetables into low nitrogen, medium nitrogen, and high nitrogen soils, you will find that if you put different veggies of that category together, there is less potential for diseases and pests building up because there are fewer of the target plants in a given area, and it makes for a more variable pattern of nutrient use, which would mean simple leaching and feeding up of the soil would eliminate low nutrient areas ? Isn't this what permaculture is all about ? Obviously you may have plants like carrots and dill that don't go together, or maybe onions and beans, but that's just the occasional ecological quirk, like companion plants.
I always have difficulty sorting out crop rotation patterns, so someone please put me out of my misery and tell me the flaws in this reasoning !

[Hazel at the Hill]

There's plenty of food for thought here - especially with regard to companion planting.

Mind you, with regard to my previous post, I'm happy with being given the 'rules' - if you give me a choice I'm all over the shop!

[Eyren]

I always have difficulty sorting out crop rotation patterns, so someone please put me out of my misery and tell me the flaws in this reasoning !

I don't think your reasoning is flawed at all, Snohare!

The fact is that some diseases and pests can migrate through soil, and others (like onion rot) persist far longer than a typical rotation period, so on a small allotment, crop rotation is never going to act as a "magic bullet" that will eliminate disease. If you follow the guidelines below, that should suffice for the average home veg-grower:

1. Feed the soil, not the plant. Add manure and compost mulches regularly, to feed the soil organisms and protect the soil surface from wind and rain.

2. Don't plant crops from the same family in the same place two years running.

3. Remove "volunteer" potatoes as soon as you see them - they are a reservoir for blight

4. Don't stress too much about rotation unless you have a known problem on your plot, like clubroot or onion rot - and then focus on specific techniques to overcome it (e.g. a clubroot-resistant brassica variety).

The main reason I've planned a fairly complex rotation for my plot is that, because it is so small, I like to have as much of the ground in production for as much of the year as possible - and combining this with rule 2 can get a bit tricky unless you plan ahead!

[di]

I'm sowing radish with my parnsips this year - read it in a mag - apparently the idea is that the radish germinate quickly, thereby marking the row out way before the parnips come up. The radish are then harvested in time to let the parnips develop. Don't know how well it will work but it's a plan.

It works well for us!....was one of the few pearls I remember from childhood.
I only ever sow parsnips this way now...mix the two packs of seed together & sow.Like you say,the radish are up nice & quick to mark the row & by the time your parsnips need the space,the radishes are harvested.

As for rotation...we have a very similar method to Snadger's dissimilar way!
The only veg I get hang~ups about moving round are carrots as we get rootfly every year,think the eggs lye dormant overwinter(?),so we always make sure & have a couple of years gap.
Other than that,we try our hardest to not put stuff in the same place,but don't lose too much sleep if it doesn't work out.(My Auntie used to be a great gardener...appeared on GW once....her onion bed was always in the same place!!!)

[BilboWaggins]

That's another 'ask a hundred gardeners and get 100 answers' question, Bilbo!

To put in my two penn'th, I follow John Seymour, self sufficiency guru -

Thanks Hazel, only 100 answers from 100 gardeners? Shame, I was expected at least another 6 contributions from the cat

Not, you've not confused things further and your rotation is starting to look very much like the plan I'm formulating in my own bit of grey matter. Four beds is definitely easier than trying to squeeze it into three and I suspect that's where the onion/bean problem with Andi Clevely's layout comes in.

Hmm, haven't heard John Seymour mentioned for years . . .

Happy Sunday all, not a cloud in the sky in west Cumbria today and we've got to meet aged relatives who are up here on holday - grrrrrr, guess where I'd rather be

Radical but... if you sort out your vegetables into low nitrogen, medium nitrogen, and high nitrogen soils, you will find that if you put different veggies of that category together, there is less potential for diseases and pests building up because there are fewer of the target plants in a given area,

Doesn't seem radical at all, in fact, sounds like perfect sense - in a flower/shrub garden you put plants with similar needs together so why not do it with vegetables?

All successful new suggestions are considered radical until it is proved they work better than the previous ideas.

Thanks Snohare

3. Remove "volunteer" potatoes as soon as you see them - they are a reservoir for blight

Stupid question - what's a volunteer potato please?

[Snadger]

Thanks Hazel, only 100 answers from 100 gardeners? Shame, I was expected at least another 6 contributions from the cat

Not, you've not confused things further and your rotation is starting to look very much like the plan I'm formulating in my own bit of grey matter. Four beds is definitely easier than trying to squeeze it into three and I suspect that's where the onion/bean problem with Andi Clevely's layout comes in.

Hmm, haven't heard John Seymour mentioned for years . . .

Happy Sunday all, not a cloud in the sky in west Cumbria today and we've got to meet aged relatives who are up here on holday - grrrrrr, guess where I'd rather be

Hazel is our Seymour Guru!

[zazen999]

Volunteer potatoes grow from unharvested tubers...

[Two_Sheds]

Guess what I've done!
Put my Japanese onions slap-bang in the middle of my broad bean bed, that's what.

Just to be Dissimilar (or did I really get a bit impatient and just stick them in a bit of spare ground during a rainstorm last November?)

[BilboWaggins]

Thank you Andrea . . . I take it that they're considered "not good" as opposed to "bonus extra crop"?

Guess what I've done!
Put my Japanese onions slap-bang in the middle of my broad bean bed, that's what?

Off to the naughty step with you then!!

[zazen999]

Thank you Andrea . . . I take it that they're considered "not good" as opposed to "bonus extra crop"?

By some. I leave them in or move to buckets for a bonus crop.