No show various seeds again

[Marb67]

Throwing in my penny's worth in a personal capacity, and not as a mod, there are so many factors relating to seeds - among them storage by suppliers, especially those bought in shops and garden centres, seeds on special offer perhaps not being at their freshest and even variability from one year to the next, as well as our own growing practices - it's hard to generalise about one entire brand being worse than another in all cases.

For example, I've got a tray of brassica seedlings, seven rows of which all germinated a while back. The other row, not a one of the twenty or so seeds I sowed from a brand new packet (summer purple sprouting). If that was the only packet of seeds I'd bought from that supplier, it would have looked like the brand was rubbish, something other rows suggest is not the case across their entire range.

And there used to be complaints here from time to time about one very cheap seed vendor on eBay, yet I only once had a problem with their seeds (mislabelled packet), despite buying lots from them at one stage (I still would, but seed exports between the EU and Britain are no longer permitted for people like me). At this kind of level, my experience and that of other members also happy to recommend this seller is only anecdotal and it does not match that of the people who had complaints, which is also only anecdotal.

The other thing I've noticed - or think I've noticed - is that a number of seemingly different brands in the UK are owned by the same owner. Do they all get their seeds from the same sources? Probably.

Seeds are expensive, especially in the amounts we tend to buy, so of course we want value for money. But more expensive still is the amount of effort we put into growing them, plus what we spend on compost, fertiliser, raised bed materials, tools, pots, even water. My biggest growing-related beef isn't over seeds but the quality of seed compost. But that's a subject we've discussed at length elsewhere, so no point raising it here.

I get my seed sowing compost free from molehill soil mixed with Irish Peat Moss (Clover brand for a great price) and pearlite. You are probably right that most seed companies get them from the same source.

In the Victorian Kitchen garden, Peter Thoday mentions how they were at it even back then by adding dud seeds etc into packets. Of course I am not suggesting that is what is happening today.

[Mark Rand]

How do you store your seeds Marb?

[smallblueplanet]

I'm with Snoop Puss " My biggest growing-related beef isn't over seeds but the quality of seed compost." When I had an early failure with sown seeds this Spring I think it could be put down to the compost. Now that isn't necessarily that it was totally at fault, but it wasn't 100% suited for sowing seeds and I was casual in my approach to the seeds.

There are too many instances of various seeds from sellers being pointed out as bad only for someone else to say how they rated that seller and they had no problems with them. I'm sure there are some instances of 'poor' seeds being sold but mostly I think it's a combination of problems from age of the seed, to the conditions it's grown in, to how they are looked after.

My thoughts are that perhaps your seed compost is too 'rich' and maybe at times too moisture retentive, overall the conditions aren't optimum.

[Marb67]

My compost is fine. I mix it with mole hill soil (loam) so not too rich. And besides, other seeds have germinated wonderfully and very healthy.

[smallblueplanet]

My compost is fine. I mix it with mole hill soil (loam) so not too rich. And besides, other seeds have germinated wonderfully and very healthy.

Why is loam not rich?

Wiki: "Loam soils generally contain more nutrients, moisture, and humus than sandy soils, have better drainage and infiltration of water and air than silt- and clay-rich soils, and are easier to till than clay soils."

You say "Brand new seived compost and molehill soil which has germinated other seeds perfectly fine." There doesn't seem much drainage, the pictures look rather wet and heavy, maybe they got too cold. You can't blame the seeds based on one example.

[Marb67]

Why is loam not rich?

Wiki: "Loam soils generally contain more nutrients, moisture, and humus than sandy soils, have better drainage and infiltration of water and air than silt- and clay-rich soils, and are easier to till than clay soils."

You say "Brand new seived compost and molehill soil which has germinated other seeds perfectly fine." There doesn't seem much drainage, the pictures look rather wet and heavy, maybe they got too cold. You can't blame the seeds based on one example.

The Clover compost (used by a nursery) is for seed sowing. The soil I collect can vary, loam is soil. It has sand in it. Plants grow in soil. I really don't know what you are getting at. The compost has to be moist otherwise seeds won't germinate. It's also very warm now.

Others here are saying the same about lack of germination in general. I haven't given one example. I have mentioned many.

Here are more examples.

Aubergine
Mixed climbing flowers
Peas/B Beans
Beetroots (different packets)
Spring Onions

[smallblueplanet]

The Clover compost (used by a nursery) is for seed sowing. The soil I collect can vary, loam is soil. It has sand in it. Plants grow in soil. I really don't know what you are getting at. The compost has to be moist otherwise seeds won't germinate. It's also very warm now.

Others here are saying the same about lack of germination in general. I haven't given one example. I have mentioned many.

Here are more examples.

Aubergine
Mixed climbing flowers
Peas/B Beans
Beetroots (different packets)
Spring Onions

I will say that when our poor germination of seeds happened this Spring, I blamed the compost and the age of some of the seeds, but I was only partly correct. As when we resowed more of the same seed varieties in different compost with added perlite, more carefully at a correct depth, they all germinated except the really old ones.

[Andraste]

Possibly of interest, I had 4/15 Peas germinate - soaked in water (fully immersed) for 8 hours before sowing in compost indoors, initially covered until sprouting started. On Monday I put 14 seed, from the same packet, between damp kitchen roll in a sealed plastic container in the kitchen. 12/14 sprouted by this morning. Seems to imply that in this isolated case at least, it wasn't the seed that was responsible for the first fail.

[ameno]

The Clover compost (used by a nursery) is for seed sowing. The soil I collect can vary, loam is soil. It has sand in it. Plants grow in soil. I really don't know what you are getting at. The compost has to be moist otherwise seeds won't germinate. It's also very warm now.

Others here are saying the same about lack of germination in general. I haven't given one example. I have mentioned many.

Here are more examples.

Aubergine
Mixed climbing flowers
Peas/B Beans
Beetroots (different packets)
Spring Onions

I mean, if that many seeds failed for you, it feels like the only common denominator here is you and your growing practices...

Also, the compost has to be moist, yes, but not sopping wet. If the compost is too wet the seeds will rot. Wetter compost also warms more slowly, so even if the air is warm, the compost might not be.
And it might be warm during the day, but the nights are still chilly, so if you have seeds that need constant warmth to germinate somewhere unprotected at night and they get chilled then that will delay or possibly even prevent germination.

[Penellype]

Question for the mods - I have done an analysis of various seeds that I have sown that are in date, looking specifically at the seed merchant. The results are interesting. Am I allowed to mention seed merchants by name here if I am going to say that their seeds are generally poor, or is that not allowed?

The mods have contacted me saying that as they have not heard back from the magazine publishers about this, I am free to post my results with a disclaimer that this is my opinion and is not endorsed by the magazine.

IMPORTANT - below are my results from ordinary sowings of small numbers of seeds, usually from one packet purchased online or in a garden centre. There is absolutely NO WAY that these results would stand any form of scientific analysis as there is no control experiment and numbers are far too small to be statistically significant. There should be trials of hundreds of seeds from several different packets, with packets from other seed merchants for direct comparison in order to come to any significant conclusions. Therefore they are for interest only.