Help chicken dead

[sallym]

Hi, I haven't been on here for ages so hope you are happy to give me some help.
I found 1 of my chickens dead this morning. She was still warm, so I don't think it had happened too long before, but her poor little body seemed stretched and twisted. Almost as if she had had a seizure. She was one of 3, 2 and a half year olds that had slowed their laying down over a period of 3 - 4 months and in the last week I was getting no eggs from them at all. They seemed a little quiet, but were eating and drinking well. 3 or 4 weeks ago I introduced 2 more POL who are doing very well and laying an egg each every day. Now the other 2 older ones are looking a bit down. One has a flopped over and paler comb, both are huddled up but come over if I go to them and are both eating and drinking. I got all chickens from a very reputable breeder who vaccinates all her chickens. I am on day 4 of worming with Flubenvet. I have made an appointment with my Vet for Monday for blood tests, but wondered if any of you Guys may have any thoughts.
Thanks for your time

[Scarlet]

Not really a lot to go on. Chickens that are only 2 1/2 should be producing eggs and the lack of worming is most often the cause and is a killer too. You say twisted? Have you seen them stretching their necks? Gape worm maybe. I know that you are worming now but when was the last time you wormed them and how big an area are you keeping them in. Small areas build up parasites quite quickly and worming should be carried out 4 times a year.

The new birds that you've introduced, were they run alongside your old ones before introducing them to the flock? It may well be that they've brought something with them.

I know it sounds obvious but lice and mites also stop egg production and can weaken and kill your birds. Have you checked coop and birds for evidence.

[sallym]

Haven't wormed since last year. OMG I will be gutted if my chicken has died due to my laziness. Would I not see worms in their poo? They're not gaping, the house and run are cleaned every other day, and I can't see any lice or mites. The new ones were housed in an extension of the run to make introduction easier. Thanks for your reply Scarlet.

[Scarlet]

Keepers don't often realise the importance of worming you won't often see the worms ( although you can if they are very heavily burgeoned with them) but they often just excrete the worm eggs. Although it's always difficult to pin point their illness worms is a sure killer and pale combs, lack of eggs, thin birds etc all point to worms especially if they've been on the same ground for the passed two years. Make sure your young ones get wormed as well.
Apple cider vinegar in their water helps too.
Don't beat yourself up. You've already started the worm treatment, but keep your eyes open as it may be something else. Fingers crossed for you.

[BertieFox]

Chickens frequently keel over and die even when they are completely free range and have nice clean housing. It may be worms or it may be something like coccidiosis. This is a significant disease of chickens, especially affecting the young chicks. It can be fatal or leave the bird with compromised digestion. There are chick feed mixes that contain a coccidiostat to manage exposure levels and control disease.

If you check the vent, make sure that it is clean and not clogged up or enlarged, as often happens with this disease.

While we have lost a few individuals to this kind of sudden death and disease over the years, the vast majority of our flock remain healthy and do not suffer the same fate. I would be inclined to say there is no reason to worry unless other members of the flock start to die or suffer. Sadly, this is just part of the natural order of things.

[Scarlet]

Bertie, the birds that have the problem are the older ones.
Coccidiosis usually affects very young birds, often blood can be seen in their droppings and they become Ill very quickly. The birds with the problem are over two years old.
I agree that some birds die early, but three kept together on the same ground, one dead, none laying, pale combs, huddled, not been wormed for a year. First call would be worming every time.

[sallym]

The 2 older birds have been out free ranging with the others today. They do still seem to be quiet, but still eating and drinking ok. If it is worms, I have hopefully caught it in time and I guarantee they will be wormed 4 times a year from now on. I did have a feel of their keel bones today, and they have a good covering of muscle and are not thin which I would expect if worms were the problem. Hopefully the Vet will be able to tell me more tomorrow. I will let you know what she says Thanks for your help

[Scarlet]

Fingers crossed it was a case of worms and nothing else. Easily remedied, though let us know if that's the case ... It all helps.

[kathyd]

To be honest, personally I'd be double checking for red mites... the 2 older birds have been in the coop / exposed longer than the 2 newbies so they'd presumably be worse affected, and the pale comb could suggest anaemia? I've not seen a bird dead from mites yet (touch wood), but the rest of the symptoms sound like my friend's birds, one of which died and the other was struggling before we found the mites and treated them.. luckily both remaining birds now doing well and laying again as normal. Mites are really, really hard to find unless you know what you're looking for, so assuming you don't have them because you haven't spotted them can be fatal (as my friend found out ). xx

[Nicos]

Good idea kathy!

Common sense tells me they would refuse to go in there if it was so badly infected...but chooks don't always seem to show that do they?

Will be thinking about you today Sally.

[goldengirl62]

Haven't wormed since last year. OMG I will be gutted if my chicken has died due to my laziness. Would I not see worms in their poo? They're not gaping, the house and run are cleaned every other day, and I can't see any lice or mites. The new ones were housed in an extension of the run to make introduction easier. Thanks for your reply Scarlet.

CONFUSED, you say you havent wormed them for a year, but you are giving them flubenvet.

First off flubenvet can be harsh on chickens regardless of what people say. I find often discussions about sick chickens, then they mention worming.....

I NEVER worm my backyard chickens. BEFORE anyone shoots me lol, i have a worm count done by my vets laboratory. I was advised to do this rather then worm unnecessarily as so many chickens are getting worm resitent now, that no amount of flubenvet is going to work. Flubenvet is a CURE, when your chickens are diagnosed with worms you give them this to get rid of them.

Its a harsh treatment regardless of what people say. My hens would never be happy being confined with only these horrible pellets to eat. They would rather starve.

Thats my way of doing it and in all the years never lost a chicken to worming yet.

As to your chicken, introducing new stock to old stock can be quite stressful. Chickens are terrible for stress.

Even if new stock is vaccinated they can still be carriers.

Floppy combs etc, lathargic sounds like parasites to me, red mite comes to mind. Did you check your house/coop? They can hide very well and you wont necessarily see them in daylight.

I would use a nettex recovery tonic with your older hens, give them a boost.

Also hens can go down like this when they start a full moult.

I am a big advocator of worm count before worming. Every test i have had done has been NEGATIVE for any worms or oocysts.

Hope your chickens get well. xxxx

[goldengirl62]

To be honest, personally I'd be double checking for red mites... the 2 older birds have been in the coop / exposed longer than the 2 newbies so they'd presumably be worse affected, and the pale comb could suggest anaemia? I've not seen a bird dead from mites yet (touch wood), but the rest of the symptoms sound like my friend's birds, one of which died and the other was struggling before we found the mites and treated them.. luckily both remaining birds now doing well and laying again as normal. Mites are really, really hard to find unless you know what you're looking for, so assuming you don't have them because you haven't spotted them can be fatal (as my friend found out ). xx

I agree with your post entirely. I know of someone who lost several hens through red mite. They really can hide they are masters at it. x

[Nicos]

Welcome to the Vine goldengirl.

Interesting comment about worming.
My daughter's horse vet now suggests not worming horses routinely anymore but to do worm counts instead.

[goldengirl62]

Welcome to the Vine goldengirl.

Interesting comment about worming.
My daughter's horse vet now suggests not worming horses routinely anymore but to do worm counts instead.

Morning Nicos, thank you.

I did a lot of reading lol.

Yes both my daughters have horses and never worm now only worm count. The point is people are using flubenvet regularly and the parasites are becoming resistent to the meds, so worm eggs now on the ground are resistent so no amount of worming the hens will help. Thats why lots of people post now with things like " i just wormed my chickens with flubenvet and horrified to find more worms int their poo...." etc.

It makes sense doesnt it. We are constantly told dont keep taking antibiotics as we can become resistant to them.

Personally i have NEVER seen a worm in any of my birds poo. Every month i use Net tex gut conditioner which helps keep their digestive system clean, and I wash down all areas and keep my houses clear of poo, so there is not much poop on the ground to cause problems.

I think lately I am a bit scared at all the posts everyone on forums about sick chickens. Chickens should not be sick not really. They are basic machinery. They eat food suitable for them, drink fresh water and should be kept in clean conditions. A chicken is not meant to sit in a dirty coop with no ventilation. It should live outside. If it cant then we should provide it with good standards.

The should be only fed food suitable for them, not cakes, biscuits etc.

I get horrified at all the threads of sick chickens lol.

I wasnt actually going to post on the ROOST threads, i joined actually to talk about red grapes lol.

Sorry my chickens are my passion lol. xxx

[Nicos]

It's always good to hear other people's points of view GG62...
Then we can make our minds up what route we choose for our chook care. We all want to give our gals the best care we can don't we?

Living in France, my vets would probably laugh their socks off if I too one of my gals to them
As a new chook keeper when we moved here I also did loads of research on the internet, but the majority of practical advice I gained from other Grapes by posting on here because I was horrified at the care most of my neighbour's hens had to experience.

Your comments about medication do actually make sense but I have to say that to change to reactive medication from proactive / preventative certainly is a big decision to make!

As you say, cleanliness is of paramount importance, but things do still go wrong especially as wild birds come in contact with our gals.
Please do keep posting on this part of the forum GG62- your advice is most welcome

And so...back to Sally !!
No news yet?...I hope everything is OK?...do keep us up to date!