Possible diagnosis of sudden death in chooks

[VirginVegGrower]

Nellie M thanks for the advice on Newcastle disease. Because I don't know about vaccinating birds, can we do that? I would do it if I thought I could. I wanted to give four hens longevity and happiness here. They are not meat or even eggs for us. Eggs were a bonus but we just like having them/watching them really. I know that probably sounds mad.
We have only sanitized the gravel and path. They won't be coming down there again. They've got the top orchard to play in now.
Thanks for the crossed fingers too x

[VirginVegGrower]

Fingers crossed.

I know very little being a hen keeper of only three weeks, but when phoning around and quizzing people selling hens (and being interviewed in return it felt) - I was asked what I was keeping them on and was strongly advised against woodchips or bark chippings. I can't stress how strongly really.

As I know someone who has done that and CANNOT shift redmite I'd already decided not to - and mine are in a pen with grass (what's left of it) and run the garden most of the day.

I have no idea if that didn't help your situation, but thought I'd mention that in this breeders opinion you would definitely have done the right thing taking them off woodchip.

Thanks Corris! They will not be going on it again, I know that much. I was so paranoid about foxes and or vermin digging under and that's why we did it.

[RichmondHens]

Chickens are always happiest on grass. If you have grass, use it. Woodchip runs (for those who don't have grass) are fine if managed carefully but hens will prefer grass given the option.

And forgive me if I speak out of turn, but please don't get paranoid about every chicken disease going. By all means see what the lab tests show on the poo sample, but some poo can have a "pink tinge" and be perfectly normal.

[VirginVegGrower]

Thank goodness for you RH - voice of sanity and my world of madness at the moment. No offence taken at all. Dogs and kids I know - hens, a very steep learning curve

[Suechooks]

I think wood chips are preferable to inches of mud which is what most runs turn into in winter. I keep pallets, pallet tops, logs and tyres in my runs so the chooks can keep off the ground if they choose. They're dug out, freshened and rested regularly as well as adding barrows full of fresh wood chips frequently as needed.
They're also out and about on the grassy areas whenever I'm there(the chooks not the wood chips that is ) - but guess what - they'd much rather dig in the soil with me!
Simples!

[VirginVegGrower]

Hiya SC - mine like grubbing with me too. The idea of tree branches is a good one. I have a lovely big log and will go and pop it in. It's not bad where they are. They haven't yet destroyed their patch, although it is only day 2. Have had them out as I was raking and tidying again. My head was on a swivel though looking for old foxy. So was Sage's. She is as paranoid as I am.

[nellie-m]

Hi VVG, my internet was gone all day and when I just logged in, I feared for the worst, but hooray - the three of you were out in the garden together, I'm so relieved.

About the ND vaccination. ND is a really bad epidemic that looks exactly like avian influenza in the beginning and the big companies dread both. Think of the financial loss they would face if it spread from your two hens to your nearest battery, and all over the country, and all over Europe and the world! So, as your hens are so dangerous, they want you to keep your birds vaccinated. You can buy it in small doses, i.e. for a small flock of 1,000 birds, or in normal doses of I-don't-know-how-many-thousands (honestly, who would keep only 1,000 hens, where's the profit in that?).

You buy it from your vet, have him dilute the powder, figure out for you how much you need for two doses, and 998 doses go down the drain. Then you take your two doses home, make sure your hens drink that within two hours after it was prepared (strictly speaking, your vet should supervise it), and you're done. Everyone says it's completely harmless, no side effects, but keep your Baytril at hand - it does have an impact on the immune system and no matter what people say, if you've got mycoplasma in your flock it can trigger an outbreak. Whenever I gave mine their ND vaccination, I lost a bird (often old ones) or at least had to treat with antibiotics. If you want to be sure they always have full immunity, you should vaccinate them every three months...

I don't vaccinate against Mareks. The breeds I keep don't seem to get it. I know some are very prone to develop it but mine don't, or at least no other breeder I know has ever related a single case.

BTW, not even the boldest Old Foxy will come into your garden as long as you're around. No offence meant

[baldrick]

Chickens are always happiest on grass. If you have grass, use it. Woodchip runs (for those who don't have grass) are fine if managed carefully but hens will prefer grass given the option.

And forgive me if I speak out of turn, but please don't get paranoid about every chicken disease going. By all means see what the lab tests show on the poo sample, but some poo can have a "pink tinge" and be perfectly normal.

Totally totally agree. Wish I had grass and orchards and so forth but I havent. I truly cannot see how woodchips are a problem tbh. I dig out the old stuff, spread it on the lottie and put new stuff down. If I didnt my chooks would be full of scaley leg mite and mud up to their eyeballs. Straw, shavings, woodchip, wild birds....you can get RM from anywhere really. Its what you do about it that counts. As for jabs, well I dont, and now, I know you can lose birds I wont. If you havent got loads of birds coming and going and you just have a handful of garden hens whats the point??? They never mix with anyone to collect or dish out these diseases. I look after my chooks very well, but I dont think worrying about stuff that may never happen would enhance my chook keeping enjoyment. Its like with kids, all you can do is minimise the obvious risks and put safeguards in place without hassling them or yourself to death. I actually think chooks, kids dogs, any life forms you care to name thrive best when they have spells of being what I call "lovingly ignored" You keep them fed, watered, free from their bodily waste and parasites, you give them mental stimulation, varied but healthy diet, a comfy bed, medical treatment (including preventative) WHEN NECESSARY, interact with them as required and you otherwise let them get on with it. Excessive sanitising is counterproductive, moving them round too much is disruptive and stressful. I find it quite distressing to hear VVG beating themselves up. Sometimes stuff just happens. I made a horrendous mistake buying some chickens last summer that could have killed my whole flock. Im thoroughly ashamed of myself, but have learned a hard lesson and refuse to beat myself up about it. When disease strikes a well managed flock usually its nobodys fault. Its horrible but when youre in the middle of a s*itstorm all you can do is your best.

[VirginVegGrower]

It is like a sh1tstorm and I feel dizzy with it all. Never thought we would have such a rough ride. The girls are now settled in their new home and on grass. Think they are rather enjoying a different view. Am still petrified about foxy but hey can't be out there all the time. I have frozen my backside off for the last three weeks by sitting in wet chairs or on wet grass. As for jabs/vaccinations I just don't know. I have to reiterate again that I know of other people who haven't gone to the lengths we have and have robustly healthy hens. Maybe it's a pure breed thing...healthy mongrel versus pure breed dog...I don't know.
Update on Sagey Baby is that Eloise came busting out of the coop this morning, Sage took her time but was washed, dressed and downstairs in a couple of minutes. Both had Baytril (Baycox finished now) like little troopers. Eloise stuffing herself whilst Sage pecking grass. Fingers still crossed.

[VirginVegGrower]

The Sage saga continues...not eating a great deal. Pecks a bit of corn, pecks a bit at broccoli, pecks at mealworms, but not her pellets or mash. She is still losing feathers, others are coming through - very preoccupied with preening but don't want her going the way of the others. She is still on Baytril. Pops are normal. Eyes circular and bright. Comb/wattles red. Tail up. What should I feed her?

[Scarlet]

I would stick to pellets - egg or mealworms if you want to tempt her. Treats really don't help. Have you tried a little ACV in her water and some garlic. Not miracle cures by any means but I think it helps

[VirginVegGrower]

Yes they have garlic and ACV as standard. She won't eat the pellets and treats only coming in late afternoon through desperation. If she loses weight like the others, then I'll lose her.

[Suechooks]

Some pellets mixed with water and cooked egg with maybe some natural yoghurt is one of my standards. Usually works. Also another one is pellets plus some porridge oats soaked and yoghurt.
Nutridrops are supposed to improve appetite.

[VirginVegGrower]

I have nutridrops so will try those. Did try her with grated apple, yoghurt, porridge oats which she picked a bit of. Eggs don't get eaten. Boiled rice does. Sultanas do.

[Suechooks]

I've never tried it but fishy things are sometimes given - tuna maybe or I have heard people use fish based cat food. Hope she's picking up a bit for you today?