stray dog

[jamesp]

The idea in smacking a dog with the bird it has killed isn't exactly punishment, it is taking the 'fun' element out of the situation, because the 'prey' fights back.
Many dogs have a very infantile 'mind basis' and grab things that flutter in 'play mode' rather than a true predation attack. That will not necessarily be stopped merely by having the pack leader nearby. Wolf cubs will 'play hunt' regardless of having Mum around.
Lots of dogs never attack anything, but it isn't as simple as 'pack leader didn't say so', especially if you take on a rescued dog, or have 2 at once, and one is 'not a team player', or make the mistake of laughing when he chases a cat out of the garden....

The wolf cubs will act as you say, but a glance or correction from a pack leader will stop them.

I have worked with many rescue dogs and have worked with packs of 6 or more dogs including a pack of Rottys, once they know your their pack leader they won't attack anything, if they do, then you spot their intention while they at a low level of interest, ie their body language and if they start to fixate on something, correct it at this level is easy, if they do attack something it is never the dogs fault but the owner or handlers or poor pack leadership.

[Hilary B]

The wolf cubs will act as you say, but a glance or correction from a pack leader will stop them.

I have worked with many rescue dogs and have worked with packs of 6 or more dogs including a pack of Rottys, once they know your their pack leader they won't attack anything, if they do, then you spot their intention while they at a low level of interest, ie their body language and if they start to fixate on something, correct it at this level is easy, if they do attack something it is never the dogs fault but the owner or handlers or poor pack leadership.

Or simply being human rather than a superhuman wolf-substitute.
'once they know you're their pack leader' is all very well for those whose WORK is dogs, but not everyone is actually THAT good at it.
I am 'leader' of our family pack, but while one dog (actually the more dominant in temperament) obeys me 99% of the time, the other only takes notice if 'retribution' is an obvious possibility. Both were acquired as rescue dogs, approx 18 months of age, now 8 years ago. The problem is compounded by the other 'human pack member', who actually has more to do with the less obedient dog, and sometimes treats particular behaviour as amusing, and other times tells them off for the same thing in a different context....
It was the less obedient one which was given a hard lesson in leaving pheasants alone.

[jamesp]

Or simply being human rather than a superhuman wolf-substitute.
'once they know you're their pack leader' is all very well for those whose WORK is dogs, but not everyone is actually THAT good at it.
I am 'leader' of our family pack, but while one dog (actually the more dominant in temperament) obeys me 99% of the time, the other only takes notice if 'retribution' is an obvious possibility. Both were acquired as rescue dogs, approx 18 months of age, now 8 years ago. The problem is compounded by the other 'human pack member', who actually has more to do with the less obedient dog, and sometimes treats particular behaviour as amusing, and other times tells them off for the same thing in a different context....
It was the less obedient one which was given a hard lesson in leaving pheasants alone.

So the problem you have is not being a consistent pack leader especially with one dog, this only confuses their brain.

I am very impressed you at least admit the problem, what I find helping people with their dogs is that humans usually choose that strong negative thing we posses called 'denial' and wont admit its their fault and not the dogs, to say it again, it is NEVER the dogs fault but the owner.

I have never had to hit a dog to correct its behaviour as this can intensify the problem or the dog only does what he is told out of fear, dogs will always accept discipline but not punishment, there is a clear difference of the two.

They can however respond to the 'power of intention'....ie again this is really a form of punishment and I wouldn't do it...ie some older people hit their dog over the nose with a rolled up newspaper to correct bad behavoir, usaully they only have to do this once or a few times, then the next time the dog does or trys to do the same bad behaviour all the owner has to do is pick up the newpaper and that is enough to correct the dog, the dog knows the 'power' of the intention and doesn't have to be hit with the newspaper again, I still maintain that this is ruling by fear and I wouldnt use it, but you could argue that for an elderly person this may be justified if they aren't fit enough to fulfil the pack leader role.

The other problem you have is that your partner or other pack leader is not on the same wavelength as you, you must both be consistent with the dogs.

Most people that rescue dogs are the worst offenders in bringing out bad behaviour, although they have the best intentions most of the time they just feel bad for what has happened to the dog in the past, the dog will pick up and sense that and see it as a weakness and while you will have your dogs trust you wont have his or her respect as they only follow a calm assertive leader.

Also what tends to happen is that the rescue dog is showered in affection, if you give affection to a dog in a stressed state you nurture that behaviour, you are saying its good to feel that way, its best to only share affection when they are calm relaxed and or doing a good behavoir.

Also what you say about finding some bad behaviour as amusing is a common problem, especially when small dogs do it, it often looks cute to us and leads to creating small monsters, I believe the technical term for us or other animals to find cuteness in another animal is called neaonty, ie wolves and other animals will see their pups as cute, its a defence mechanism for survival, we are the only species though to see older animals as cute, this has been put down to the fact that we look after our young for a much longer period of time.....ie 18 years or more.

Its not rocket science to be a good pack leader, the techniques are very simple, it just takes a bit of time and patience, you could do it no problem and your partner and I promise you that if you do you will be surprised how much more you will bond with your dog, there is no better feeling than walking with your dog and he is migrating with you as he would do in the wild, I just look at my dog as we are walking along and I can see he is in the 'zone', its hard to explain, but its a great feeling, to a dog walking is just as important as birds flying and fish swimming, but you have to learn to 'master' the walk, most people just let their dog walk in front of them, this makes the owner the follower straight away, just look next time your out walking, I guarantee over 95% of people walking their dogs are the followers and not the pack leader...ie the dog will be in front of them if they on or off the lead....

[jackie j]

Years ago our pet rabbit was killed in the early hours of the morning by a large german shepherd dog that when my OH followed it home it just pushed the door open. OH knoked on the door and woke up the dog owner who just muttered something not sure what.
Phoned the police they came out later in the day and as the dog hadnt injured anyone especially the children there was nothing they could do.
Dog owner offered to buy another rabbit but we didnt want his dog to attack again, he didnt offer anything else, and got away with being a bad owner. He later rehomed the dog and my concern was that if it had attacked once it might do so again.
I am not a great lover of dogs and wouldnt have one, but I do like them as long as they are behaved.

[jamesp]

Years ago our pet rabbit was killed in the early hours of the morning by a large german shepherd dog that when my OH followed it home it just pushed the door open. OH knoked on the door and woke up the dog owner who just muttered something not sure what.
Phoned the police they came out later in the day and as the dog hadnt injured anyone especially the children there was nothing they could do.
Dog owner offered to buy another rabbit but we didnt want his dog to attack again, he didnt offer anything else, and got away with being a bad owner. He later rehomed the dog and my concern was that if it had attacked once it might do so again.
I am not a great lover of dogs and wouldnt have one, but I do like them as long as they are behaved.

A lot of dogs have been destroyed or put down as a result of having an irresponsible owner as this guy clearly was.

Again it is not the dogs fault, all dogs are born non aggressive and only humans make them aggressive, in the wild it simply not the case, wolves in the wild are extremely shy and would run a mile from any human unless cornered or starving.

In regard to your concern about the dog attacking again, if the dog was shown leadership as i mentioned before it won't happen.

I helped a neighbour who has an outside kepted rabbit, their dog would try and attack the rabbit if they let it out of the cage and it had killed a previous rabbit they had, i used a technique that is instinctual to the dog, I pinned the dog to the ground as a pack leader would do in the wild, a packer leader would use their mouth and teeth to hold the dog on the ground, not to hurt but just to show dominance, I make my hand into a cup shape so my fingers become my mouth and teeth, you have to make sure you are doing this in a calm assertive state of mind, not angry or frustrated, after a short period about 1 minute a dog will just calm down and relax, basically submitting to the situation, once completely calm i then put the rabbit near the dog, if the dog tries to get up i use a short sharp noise and the head goes back down again, or i use my cupped shaped hand to pin down again, not until the dog completely submits to the rabbit being there will I let it back up again, also after doing this if the dog shows any interest in the rabbit a short sharp noise to correct and if dont work pin the dog down again, they soon learn to leave the rabbit alone, with dogs its all about territory and ownership, so what I am saying to the dog is that I own the rabbit and its mine leave it alone, just like if you want a dog to behave in your house, garden or outside world if you make it clear thats its your territory and not theirs then you will have no problem, basically you claim any space that you want, none of what i have mentioned here will hurt a dog in any way shape or form and it wont hurt your dogs feelings or break its spirit as some people think, in fact it will be the opposite as most dogs want a strong leader.

Also if a dog has an animal in its mouth you can make them drop it by putting your fingers under the lip part around their jaws, if that doesnt work, you can apply medium pressure (while being calm assertive or it wont work) with your fingers to the back of each side of their jaws, this is a pressure point and they have to open their jaws...even Pitbulls.

Don't try the above yourself get a professional to show you.

[jackie j]

Unfortunatly it was too late to do anything for the poor rabbit as i was asleep and the kids started to scream cos they looked out of the window and saw it happen.
Yes it is the owners and not the dogs who are at fault.
My sister and brother-in -law bought a black pedigree cocker spaniel back in 1978 and it turned out to have been interbred and they had a lot of problems, it cost them a lot in vets fee's trying to put it right, the last straw was when it went for their 6 yr old daughter and they had him put down. they then had another coloured cocker spaniel and she was lovely.
I am not against dogs and two of my sons have dogs one a black lab and the other a german shepherd he is coming to the end of his days. Both well cared for and loved.