learning to farm

[Tiny Allotment]

There are many ways of gardening and making money and Charles Dowding is doing great stuff. I have a couple of his books and I follow his no dig method myself.

The original poster however specifically mentioned farming and to me farming is very different to gardening.

It is also considered by many that in order to make any real money from farming you need lots of land but that isn't true any more. There are modern ways of looking at farming that means you can earn a very good living from a small area. That doesn't mean that it is going to be easy and not involve a lot of hard and sometimes backbreaking work but it is a way of earning a decent living off of a small piece of land such as was mentioned in the original post.

Paul

[Ovce domácí]

We are sort of doing something similar. First we moved out of the city to have a house with garden as only flats are in our range in the city. Then we have gotten into veggie gardening as a hobby which has grown over time. We have also gotten into traditional architecture. In our first house towards the end of our 3 yrs there we were almost self sufficient for veg for half of the year growing easier stuff like onions, spuds and garlic, tomatoes, pumpkins and getting lucky with yields and eating simply. We had an offer we couldnt refuse, sold up and moved around for a couple years before settling down last year in an old farmhouse, big barn, cellars, workshops with an acre of land with possibilities to buy/lease more local land.

We are thinking of very slowly moving into some part of organic farming. I work in IT in the city 4 days a week but Middle East hours so Im home at 4pm, the Mrs is a self employed lawyer working from home mostly so we have some time to spend on hobbies, Ive also worked fully from home in the past so hope to in future. But the first few years will be whipping the place into shape, plastering and rendering walls, renovating the bathroom and fix the roof on each building.

We will start just growing for ourselves while we have our day jobs, first plot has been a success, will now dig a second. Another big step will be a couple of sheep and a goat next spring, getting the fence supplies in now. Will use the sheep waste in concert with the garden.

I agree with a lot of whats said above, you should diversify and like Aberdeen Plotter says get hands on experience somewhere. The course doesnt sound too bad and Ł500 odd isnt a killer but I wonder if you could get the same knowledge for less money. Buying a shedload of organic gardening books and volunteering. Here in Czech Rep(your Polish?) we have model villages in Moravia for organic farming where you work and learn, bottling fruit juices and preserving, making honey, running vineyards. I wonder if there are similar places in UK and Eire. We also get along with the veteran farmer next door who keeps rabbits, pigs and bees as well as growing fruit&veg so old hands are always good for advice. There is someone in Austria called Sepp Holzer who is something of a god in permaculture circles, he has books and offers farm visits.

We attend local farmers markets too and dont see much of a living in veg. If anything we will try specialty goods. Sheep's milk, cheeses, butter and yoghurts. Bee related goods like honey and honeywine/medovina. I wouldnt like to rely on veg to pay the mortgage with todays world, too hot, too cold, too wet, too dry. The local inheritees are able to make a living from veg but I wouldnt do it with a mortgage.

We will stay in our day jobs and slowly increase production, trial and error until it gets near a sustainable living. One of us will stay in daily grinding work to be safe, probably the Mrs as she has more of a profession and flexible options. I would not like to jump right in.

[Ovce domácí]

I had a quick look for SPIN farming and couldn't make much sense of it. Profit seemed to be the main motive for SPINning - including paying to see what its all about. So I lost interest!
Some people want to move to the country, have a bit of land, grow their own fruit and veg and don't always need to make a profit.

Yeah I agree, selling a lifestyle.

Some people say the same about the Austrian chap I mentioned who makes more money giving talks then off his land.

There is also a wide ranging permaculture forum I frequent to learn about livestock and there are other similar goings on including an American or British woman here inviting people to pay and pitch a tent and give her a hand and learn about clay/straw bale building but it sounded a bit cultish.

I think with me and some others its not about cutting a profit, but would be nice to be able to pay the bills, mortgage, electric and possible future uni fees for the kids(currently only a token fee here, will probably change) by living on the land. Not living on the land doing that stuff and still driving in to put a shift in at the office.

[tsuzmir]

WOW!!! what a great conversation! thanks for all the replies!
now, i'll try to answer all the questions in one post and as briefly as i can.
i work full time inretail managenet (50-55hrs per wk) and missus is working full time 40hrs plus studying part time so we dont have much spare time at the moment. we are planning the move for next few years as i mentioned in 1st post, say 3-4 years. definitely no more than 5 years - this is our absolute deadline. why? the OH will finish studying, get fully qualified as accountant and get couple of years of experience and that will help our situation financially. i will be abole to reduce my working hrs if i need to. but most importantly i have this time to learn more about farming and figure out what exactly i want to do. i dont think that just producing veg for the market is what i want to do. i think the way to go is to add value to what you grow. i want top try things. i'd love to give cheesemaking, beekiping, etc. etc. a go and see what suits me and what could i do to make some money. the ideal situation for the start would be a veg patch and a dairy cow for us, plus share sulprus if there is any. as time goes, yes, i would like to transition slowly into farming.
a bit chaotic i think, apologies. fire away any questions you may have.
i'm off to work now. i just have one ask in a meantime: can you please post a title of book/books that you can recommend. i'll start with that. also, i have 2 weeks hols to take by the end of the year. any organic farm you know that would take on volunteer?
thanks for the all the replies!

[Guest]

A bit of an oldie but Self suffiency by John Seymour. I like this book as it does cover more than just veg and it is a proper nitty gritty book not all fluff and pretty pictures

Also you may want to consider a goat rather than a cow (lower cost on feed)

[Tiny Allotment]

Have a look into WWOOF if you want to get some experience of working on an organic farm.

You stay for free and they feed you etc in return for a few hours work on the farm a day.

You can do it all over the world but it might be an idea to go to where you intend to start your new life.

As mentioned above I can highly recommend Charles Dowding Vegetable Course Book

Paul

[veggiechicken]

Thanks tsuzmir. I now understand what you're looking for! Much the same as I always wanted to do - but, for various reasons, didn't.
Have a look at https://www.wwoof.org.uk/ There may be somewhere that you could go for a couple of weeks for experience and a "free" holiday!
Re bees, check out your local beekeeping association. They welcome newcomers to the world of beekeeping and you may find someone local who can give you hands on experience of bees.

[bearded bloke]

Along with the bees you should get a few chooks, surplus eggs are always good for bartering/selling

[bario1]

Gaia's Garden is a good starting point for permaculture - I was given it as a gift, and although I don't practise all the principles, there were some very interesting and sensible ideas that I have taken on board.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gaias-Garden.../dp/1603580298

[bramble]

Have you tried offering your servces to the office of public works. (opw) They have a walled garden in the botanics and another one in the phonix park. I am sure there are plenty more around. It would give you an oppertunity to get a feel for what you would like to do.
The botanic gardens also have an apairy. (sp)

[Ovce domácí]

A bit of an oldie but Self suffiency by John Seymour. I like this book as it does cover more than just veg and it is a proper nitty gritty book not all fluff and pretty pictures

Also you may want to consider a goat rather than a cow (lower cost on feed)

I agree with a goat(or a sheep). Much easier to manage, eats less, can keep more of them on a smaller plot so high yields. We're getting Cameroon sheep as they dont have wool to shear, they have hair and moult like a cat. They are also a lean meat if you can cope with having them sent to slaughter(I dont think I can).

Plus with certain sheep you can make niche products like Slovak style Bryndza (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryndza) where cows cheese is more common. Im a big fan of goats cheese too. Lower lactose levels then cows as well which is a growing lucrative market, the Mrs is lactose intolerant so we know how expensive it is for special milks and cheeses.

Cheese and Milk Allergy Advice
Milk Showdown: Cow vs. Sheep vs. Goat - Which is best?

[Mark Lottie]

bookmark!

I'm planning on doing the same but in England at some point but before I do anything drastic I'm going to do as much WWOOF'ing (volunteering on farms) as I can because it's all well and good thinking you're going to be a farmer until you've actually tried it/lived it.

I'm into permaculture and intend to implement it in part but it's not a system or community that lends itself too well to profit. The whole ethos is basically about giving away anything that's profit (you intend to make enough money/produce to deal with your needs plus extra to be able to replace/fix what you have).

It seems to me that diversification is key. Dont just do a few things, have lots of enterprises so if one fails you have something to fall back on. I'm thinking about honey, bees, worms, christmas trees, camping/glamping (also helpful for getting planning permission for a dwelling in the UK), education courses, possibly yoga camps run by a friend, fancy hops in addition to veg/herbs/flowers/fruit.

Also think about what high value crops are needed in the local area. Herbs are good earners compared to the amount of land they need. Dont worry about grains.

anyone who is thinking about getting farm land and eventually getting planning permission for a dwelling should get "field to farm" which is a book available online with a helpful forum and people who have succeeded in doing it. If anyone's interested I can explain the rough process the author recomends.

[Guest]

If you want a couple more case studies there is real seeds - veg growers determined to supply op seeds and brown envelope seeds who were a dairy farm the seed and veg was a hobby About Us

[tsuzmir]

Plus with certain sheep you can make niche products like Slovak style Bryndza (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryndza) where cows cheese is more common.

good point, plus i love bryndza!

[tsuzmir]

already have 3 ex batts in my garden

Along with the bees you should get a few chooks, surplus eggs are always good for bartering/selling