Is it possible to be 100% sufficient from allotment? How sufficient is your patch?

[Bill HH]

I apologise if my post about what self sufficiency really means sounded irritable and dismissive. I am fully in support of the attempt to grow as much as possible for yourself, but I am exasperated by those who like some of my friends, raise pigs, for example, but feed them entirely on bought-in concentrates from a sack, yet still claim this is 'self sufficiency'; or gardeners who make regular trips to garden centres or farms to truck in large quantities of compost and muck. All you are doing is importing somebody else's fertility on to your plot at the expense of the land it came from. But it's interesting to note that throughout history people didn't set up 'self sufficient' plots but co-operated together in village groups to farm and process what they grew. They certainly worked from dawn to dusk to do so, and anybody living a truly self sufficient lifestyle has to do the same, unless you are using lots of power machinery, which isn't self sufficiency as you are dependent on fuels. When people say, 'Oh but I just mean self-sufficient in vegetables', it's a bit like saying, 'I believe in chastity but I mean only staying faithful at weekends!' Having ranted on about all that, what we find with our several acres which overwhelms us with work in the summer months, is that it incredibly easy to produce massive surpluses of produce in summer and autumn, but that there is a famine in winter. Storage and freezing only goes some way to meet this dearth and even our highly self-sufficient farming neighbours who have been doing this for their lifetime have to resort to supermarket visits in winter. And that's despite having half a barn full of bottled fruits, vegetables and stored squashed and beets. Good luck in your efforts to be as fully self sufficient as you can, but recognise that it is far from easy to get even half way there.

Surely its better to be half self sufficient than not. Even using a freezer is using electricity. using purchased feed for chickens or pigs is better than not having them in the first place. Yes its possible to be self sufficient but you had better be prepared for a pretty rough time of it, a least some of the year.
Its all a matter of degree.

[Feral007]

Well I'm not self sufficient, because I just drove up to my friends place to retrieve surplus veg I could have ridden the horse, but he'd have refused to go since it was dinner time and we've bought in feed since we've no rain since forever.

I'm not sefl sufficient and never will be. I use a petrol driven pump to pump water out of the river.
And I buy the chooks grain. In winter they love it, but I noticed in spring they didn't go up to the hayshed as soon as they were let out, they went to the wetland bit to eat any worms first. So they're not very self sufficient either.
And we'll never eat anyone we've met, so no.

I'm in awe of some of you who seem to have a very small hungry gap. We really enjoy trying to grow as much fruit and veg as we can, weather permitting. I freeze, and don't have solar or wind power.
I don't can. And I don't make jam. I guess really we grow as much as we can, because we don't like all the preservatives and pesticides used in a lot of farming. And if you want fresh then you have to grow it.
I do like the community aspect of sharing, but find that that can be a forgotten skill these days.

[Bill HH]

I originaly grew veg to save money (that was a bit of a joke) So then I decided I am doing it so we can eat fresh food, thats ok but it is seasonal and brief, Then I decided it was because I dont want chemicals in my food, but that means I have a lot of problems with bugs n slugs. My latest position is I do it because it pleases me and I'm sticking with that.
As for sharing, that seems to be my wifes department, friends and family even the plumber and electrician walk out of our house clutching my expensive kilner jars with Jam and pickles etc. Do they return the jars? like hell they do. Then when I fancy some jam or pickles my wife tells me its all been used!!!!!
I only have my back garden so I could only become self sufficient in perhaps one thing, this year is the year of the onion for me.

[AllInContainers]

I have no ambitions to be self sufficient. I can't think of anything worse

I have no interest in getting rid of my car, computer or phone. I like to be insured in case of disaster, and have the funds to buy clothes rather than making them from plant or animal fibres, and buy the tools I need rather than forge, knap and scavenge. I wear prescription specs, visit the dentist, support friends and family in need, and enjoy going out for a few drinks or a nice meal.

I also like having food growing in my back garden. This isn't to cut costs or to sustain myself in times of crisis - but a hobby - a pleasant escape from the hustle and bustle. I can buy food for less than it costs me to grow based on my space, location, and aspect, which is why I am moving into unusual crops or ones which aren't as cheap to buy. I think modern "self sufficiency" for many people is more to do with getting in tune with their inner being, just as some people like to go wild camping or take up bushcraft and primitive skills as a hobby and calling it survival training (which amuses me no end). I do take my hat off to those who strive to grow virtually all their own foods, but that's not the life I want for myself.

There is nothing wrong with not being completely 100% dependant on commercial frameworks, and as Bill said, it's a sliding scale for people to find their own level of comfort and practicality. For some it may mean growing over 90% of their own produce, or for others like me, it's growing a few top-ups and treats. It's all good if you enjoy what you do, and it improves your life in any way.

[ancee]

I grow it all, because I can, because I love to do it, because it feeds my soul and because it's something I am flabergastingly good at! I amaze myself!
I would love to be like Starloc in Bulgaria, where every hour I put in is an hour that benefits me and mine. But I have to go out and work the daily grind to bring in the cash that buys the seeds that make me happy
One day I'd like to live in the middle of nowhere living off the land - but I'm afraid this would be VERY short lived, as, as soon as it got dark I'd freak out and go and turn on all the lights and shut the curtains - worrying about what might be `out there' in the dark dark!

[Samuel1988]

Im not fully self sufficient yet....., but it is really hard work anyway!

I grow most things I eat...but apart from fruit plants/trees I have a very boring diet....lots of a few things that store well , various potatoes.....carrots, onions, turnips, parsnips and herbs, this year I am growing beans and barley as well

This year I am staying almost 100% in Bulgaria from next month, so its all got to be stored for the winter.

I am planning a biogas reactor to run a 240v generator, wind generator and solar panels, 99 % of the house is now 12V when its eventually changed over from mains it will all be from 12v and inverters for 240v if needed

In Bulgara when im not at my factory, im in the garden by 5am , given up by 10am , then theres the house repairs, put food on the woodburner, then more wood to be chopped, then if its too hot in the summer you just stop....( I tend to do the internet sites then ) , if not its into the house to clean things like the chimney, then as it cools down the garden starts again, repair of outbuildings, mud brick walls etc, then by about 10pm food and bed.....then it all starts again next day

I do this 4 days a week in BG while talking on the phone if needed, rest of the time its more normal work in the office or the factory if im needed

The only way they manage real self sufficency in Bulgaria is because most of the area take part in the same life style, not only the poorest people, nearly everyone who lives anywhere remotely rural ( most of Bulgaria )

For example were I am , lots of people have chickens, most people have a goat, many have a pig or a cow, the pigs are quite easy to control in a small area of the garden, the only feed they get are scraps / weeds from the garden for most of the year, everyone swaps for what they need

The animals dont feed in the garden.....Every day the various shepherds come and collect an animal as they walk past the house , walk them off to the common land all around the viliage to feed them, they spend all day walking round, just after dark he brings them back, they just file off into the correct gardens , the animals know were they live, the only ones they some times tie up are cows as they tend to stand outside the houses like statues eating the hedges if not tied up

the charge for the shepherd is very very low, something like a couple of pounds a month, but as nobody has much money its usualy paid in some eggs or veg, shepherd doesnt need to grow anything so has time to look after the animals, the animals need no food in the garden as they spend all day in the common land or hills , the animals get bumped off for the winter as its too expensive to buy feed and then people with animals swap with people with lots of veg

The only time money is needed is for things like the rates ( about £10 a year ), most people dont use much if any electricity, there is no mains gas, water from villiage natural springs or garden well, foor cooked on wood burner, wood is purchased by most people for about £20 a cubic meter ( again often swapped for someething ) , but many collect from the side of roads as they walk round if they want some

I cant see it being possible to do this to the level they do it in BG in the UK, but it is very possible in a rural area of a rural country like BG ,

Many people are dumping there jobs and moving over to BG for this reason

To be honest I would easily life a life in the outdoors as opposed to the boring 9-5 office job. I can handle physical punishment its just boredom that kills me quicker!

p.s I might dump my job and move over too if I can! I have done travelling and working in Tanzania, Tenerife & Indonesia so I wouldn't mind giving it a go!

[Samuel1988]

I apologise if my post about what self sufficiency really means sounded irritable and dismissive. I am fully in support of the attempt to grow as much as possible for yourself, but I am exasperated by those who like some of my friends, raise pigs, for example, but feed them entirely on bought-in concentrates from a sack, yet still claim this is 'self sufficiency'; or gardeners who make regular trips to garden centres or farms to truck in large quantities of compost and muck. All you are doing is importing somebody else's fertility on to your plot at the expense of the land it came from. But it's interesting to note that throughout history people didn't set up 'self sufficient' plots but co-operated together in village groups to farm and process what they grew. They certainly worked from dawn to dusk to do so, and anybody living a truly self sufficient lifestyle has to do the same, unless you are using lots of power machinery, which isn't self sufficiency as you are dependent on fuels. When people say, 'Oh but I just mean self-sufficient in vegetables', it's a bit like saying, 'I believe in chastity but I mean only staying faithful at weekends!' Having ranted on about all that, what we find with our several acres which overwhelms us with work in the summer months, is that it incredibly easy to produce massive surpluses of produce in summer and autumn, but that there is a famine in winter. Storage and freezing only goes some way to meet this dearth and even our highly self-sufficient farming neighbours who have been doing this for their lifetime have to resort to supermarket visits in winter. And that's despite having half a barn full of bottled fruits, vegetables and stored squashed and beets. Good luck in your efforts to be as fully self sufficient as you can, but recognise that it is far from easy to get even half way there.

Thanks for your input.

I should say that the aim of this post would be to learn how I can grow (or raise) as much as I can to support myself (thus use all the space I have to its maximum) and to see how other peoples plots has met their demand for food.. I aim to do this in the most efficient (in terms of time, energy & money) manor as I can and one in which can benefit the environment (so no chemical fertilisers etc).

I have absolutely no intention of living in a cave and this wonderful resource we call the internet is indeed powered by electricity but if used correctly (like asking questions on forums like this) it is such an amazing learning resource for advancement. Obviously the only humans mainly to be self sufficient are those which we call 'uncivilised' but I aim to try to do what best I can in different areas of my life. At the end of the day there is 7 billion of us and that is always going to rise so.. yeah!

Yes indeed civilisation itself was due to agriculture and working together & I have noticed the benefits of working together with my fellow plot holders.

Thanks for the good luck

[Linzy]

my mum and dad have a small holding and are self sufficient in fruit, veg,spuds, pork, lamb, mutton, chicken, turkey, geese and eggs. But its hard work and is pretty much a full time job and takes alot of effort.
I remember watching a programme (something carol Klein did i think) and they had a 1mtr by 1 mtr plot and they said with carefully planning and bout 1/2hr a day tending it you could get a family of four to have one meal a day from it.

[Samuel1988]

my mum and dad have a small holding and are self sufficient in fruit, veg,spuds, pork, lamb, mutton, chicken, turkey, geese and eggs. But its hard work and is pretty much a full time job and takes alot of effort.
I remember watching a programme (something carol Klein did i think) and they had a 1mtr by 1 mtr plot and they said with carefully planning and bout 1/2hr a day tending it you could get a family of four to have one meal a day from it.

If you remember what that programme was I would love to watch it!

[Dorothy rouse]

Gosh it would be real worry to feel you had to produce all your own veg, thinking about all the things that also enjoy our veg, slurs, snails,caterpillars, pigeons, squirrels etc, not to mention the UK weather, and would take all the pleasure and enjoyment out of growing your own. Nothing tastes as good as veg & fruit, that has just been picked or dug up, and shop bought stuff just doesn't have the taste.

Am sure I could produce more if I was a bit more organised, ( maybe this year), but each year is different, if I depended on producing it all, it would become a chore. I love the fresh air and exercise almost as much as the produce.

[Thelma Sanders]

If you remember what that programme was I would love to watch it!

Was it the Harlow Carr garden..........3m x 3m from the Carol Kein programme Grow your own veg?
From about 6.30 mins in programme 1 (the rest of series is on youtube as well
Grow Your Own Veg ~ Breaking New Ground - YouTube

[Martin H]

Thanks Thelma, I missed this series, will watch episodes 2-6 over the rest of the week

[Jakejakeyjakejake]

If you remember what that programme was I would love to watch it!

It was carol kleins grow your own veg


Sent from my iPhone using Grow Your Own Forum

[Martin H]

It was carol kleins grow your own veg

Here it is: Grow Your Own Veg - YouTube

I watched them all a couple of weeks back, very good.