Three sisters query

[deathbysnails]

Hi all,
I know there's been a lot of chatter about the three sisters technique but I've got a couple of questions which my searches of old entires haven't answered.

They are:

1 - Will this setup be any good for growing mini-corn which, I believe is not supposed to be pollinated

2 - Can you use any squash? ( was considering courgette and patty pan)

Actually, one more question (which might have been answered) - does it matter which french beans I use, or could I use peas instead?

Thanks for any advice

DbS

[TEB]

The squash was used to climb the corn and help stabilise it, are you using a climbing courgette, if yes, you could be in danger of suffocating the corn (if using mini corn) sufficiently enough that you wouldnt be able to pick the produce. The legume was only there or so I believe just to fix nitrogen in the soil.

PS dont think 3 sisters had anything to do with pollination of the corn

[RedThorn]

it's my understanding that the three sisters works in the following way. Corn for the height, so that the legume can climb up it and the squash can trail around beneath to keep in moisture and suppress the weeds. The legume provides additional nitrogen to the other two.

In theory:
1)you can use any type of corn (bearing in mind the height is required for the legume)

2)Any kind of legume( bearing in mind the beans were dried - this was because they are not so easy to harvest during the growing season)

3) Any kind of sprawling/rambling squash( bearing in mind that the leaves are big and meant to cover all the ground to keep moisture and starve the weeds)

Something else to remember, is the Squash and the Lugume grow a lot faster than Corn so you could end up starving the corn and have nothing for the legume to climb....

This then leaves you the thing that all GYO's seem to share in common - the ability and the joy of experimenting

good luck with your timings for the sowings. Please post your finding and what you'd do and would not do later in the season. Looking forward to hearing your results and how much success you have had

[Sanjo]

I am going to try runners and sweetcorn in the same bed but I shall use a cane for the beans to climb up. Doing them together a) because otherwise I would not have space for both and b) because, as stated, the beans fix nitrogen in the soil.
I am going to make sure that the bed is rich before I start though and will watch to make sure that none of it starves.
If I am successful at germinating my outdoor cucumbers, I may trail a couple underneath (or I might be able to scrounge a couple of squash plants from my daughter!!)
Nothing to lose really so I am going for it.

[di]

We attempted this method with Runners a couple of years ago,the mass of squash leaves trailing around the beans made harvesting incredibly difficult!If we do it again I'll be using a bean that can be left to dry on the plant until the squash are done their thing.

[JennieAtkinson]

I did this a couple of years ago and it was reasonably successful, but I wouldn't try it with a runner bean, far too many leaves. You also need to get your corn started earlier than the beans so they have a head start. I didn't get any squash but at least the leaves did act as a weed suppressant.

It is an interesting experiment, but I must say that last year I grew salad under my corn and that worked very well too.

And don't underestimate how tall the mini corn can grow. My experience has been that it grows taller than the ordinary.

Happy growing.

[Flummery]

The native Americans who use this method leave both the corn and the beans to dry on the plant and harvest them for winter use. That makes far more sense than trying to fight your way through squash plants to harvest them fresh.

[CarolineW]

I did this a couple of years ago and it was reasonably successful, but I wouldn't try it with a runner bean, far too many leaves. You also need to get your corn started earlier than the beans so they have a head start. I didn't get any squash but at least the leaves did act as a weed suppressant.

It is an interesting experiment, but I must say that last year I grew salad under my corn and that worked very well too.

That's interesting to hear, Jennie. I am planning to do the 3 sisters this year too, and plan to grow beans for drying because of the difficulty harvesting. although I did think I'd try some peas on the outside edge, on the theory that I should be able to reach them? (we'll see).

My concern was that the squash wouldn't get sufficient sun to fruit in our British summers, and from Jennie's comments, it seems that perhaps it's a valid one. Or would it just mean that they don't ripen, and the not fruiting is actually just a nutrient issue? Wish I knew more about gardening!!

Does anyone else have experience of this? Perhaps I ought to stick to the salad idea, at least for most of the bed, in order to get the best return on space? That is definitely a factor for us, although I LOVE the idea of squash taking up space and being helpful at the same time. Especially as we eat such a lot of it, and the space versus return issue is very important for us.

Looking forward to seeing what others have to say - this is a really interesting thread.

[TEB]

Jennie is a lot lot farther North that you, I grew Turks Turban last year and it fruited fine, in fact tried stopping the thing from fruiting as it rambled for miles and climbed everything and put out fruit in the most obscure locations..

[CarolineW]

Jennie is a lot lot farther North that you, I grew Turks Turban last year and it fruited fine, in fact tried stopping the thing from fruiting as it rambled for miles and climbed everything and put out fruit in the most obscure locations..

Good to know, TEB, thanks. Hmm, yes, should have considered the North/South bit - forgot about that

[deathbysnails]

Thanks for all the comments. I suspect that many of you have a far larger space than I do - I'm only allowed a small area of the garden for veg as apparently flowers are much nicer, so I thought this might be a good way of using the space wisely. The patch for this experiment is only about 1.5 metres x 1 metre, if that. I reckon this might make it easier for me to pick my beans, though perhaps I'm being ridiculously optimistic.

From what everyone is saying, it sounds as though I should stick some canes in the ground too, so that the beans can head up these without strangling my mini-corn. (Incidentally - does anyone know if these special mini corn variants have greater crops than 'big' corn?). I know this is not very native american, but let's face it, I'm living in Deepest Darkest Sarf-East London, not the great American plains.

The downside to it all is that I can't get going till April, I guess. Though I suppose that means I can get the ground ready - any suggestions on the best thpreparations for these crops?

[selfraising]

I don't think I got any more cobs from the mini corn than I did with the full sized ones. The sweetcorn likes quite a lot of manure as do the courgettes, not sure about the beans and the sweetcorn roots like quite a deep soil.

[Sanjo]

I grew shop bought "minipops" last year, like an idiot I lost the label so didn't know they were edible at so small a size so let them get biggish. Nasty!!
Pick small for sweet and tender. Got about 3 cobs per plant.
They did, however, grow to around 5' tall
I grew them in my Link-a-bord bed which is only 1 metre x 2metres. Plenty of organic matter dug in first, lettuce and beetroot all round the base of the corn. All in all I think it worked well.

[TEB]

Thanks for all the comments. I suspect that many of you have a far larger space than I do - I'm only allowed a small area of the garden for veg as apparently flowers are much nicer, so I thought this might be a good way of using the space wisely. The patch for this experiment is only about 1.5 metres x 1 metre, if that. I reckon this might make it easier for me to pick my beans, though perhaps I'm being ridiculously optimistic.


From what everyone is saying, it sounds as though I should stick some canes in the ground too, so that the beans can head up these without strangling my mini-corn. (Incidentally - does anyone know if these special mini corn variants have greater crops than 'big' corn?). I know this is not very native american, but let's face it, I'm living in Deepest Darkest Sarf-East London, not the great American plains.


The downside to it all is that I can't get going till April, I guess. Though I suppose that means I can get the ground ready - any suggestions on the best thpreparations for these crops?

Once they start eating what you grow then it gets easier to justify pinching just a little bit more space, also you dont have to grow long rows of anything, a wigwam of just 4 runner beans with their bright red flowers are attractive and was once why they were grown in this country, equally squeezing in say the odd black Kale or cauli doesnt distract, also consider edging the veg patch with something like calendula, this looks visually attractive and can have the added benefit of warding off insects or attracting slugs away from your produce.

Depending on what you end up growing you may need to stake both the beans and the sweetcorn, ideally they like a sunny spot thats reasonable sheltered.

Beans and sweetcorn like a rich soil, beans especially like a organic matter in the mix and now is the ideal time to prepare the bed. Both suffer from frosts and if it were me I wouldn't start to sow my sweetcorn until mid april (ish), I tend to sow into peat pots indoors (both hate root disturbance) and plant out when all risk of frost is gone. Because sweetcorn can be thirsty plants I place either a 3" pot in the ground next to the plants so as to get the water directly on the roots.
PS when you harvest sweetcorn you need use it quite quickly because as soon as you harvest it the sugars start to turn to starch (just like peas), we harvest ours and cook it immediately (in its husk) on the Barbie - loveleeeeeey look you as the Welsh OH would say