Flame gun v Roundup

[CarolineSonning]

Hi all,
I've read a few threads about these and I really like the idea, but now my OH is asking why it's any more green than using Roundup? (I have quite a bit of paving/gravel to keep weeded and I thought the gun would do the trick greenly but........).
Anyone have some good arguments I can use to sway him?

[dinky_doo]

use round up on the gravel or gig it up then put someweed suppressing membrane down and relay your gravel
but you can get small flame guns which use butane canister from the garden centers or e-bay
hope it helps

[User Removed]

I perosnally would use Round up, it will makes the job a lot quicker and easyier.
Its also a lot cheaper and will last for ages once done

[nick the grief]

To do it properly Caroline you'd need to flamegun a couple of times on tough weeds. You done set fire to them just heat them up enough to rupture the cell walls.

I'd use round up as the small gas ones are about � 30 - you can get a lot of roundup for �30!! The big petrol ones are �100+ so the roundup looks a snip doesn't it

[Sunbeam]

roundup is fantastic but flame gun is much more fun!

[snohare]

This is the sort of dilemna that I and my fellow Conservation Volunteers have to decide on all the time. Unfortunately, it is almost always a case of comparing apples and oranges for flavour; it boils down to, which do you prefer ? !
Gas powered flame guns, quite apart from being a wee bit dodgy to control in my admittedly limited experience, and more to the point not much use in windy conditions, use butane or propane gas, and steel. The fuels are greenhouse gases, and if I remember correctly ozone depleters too. (Although any gas that contributes to the greenhouse effect also contributes to ozone depletion indirectly, by leading to lower temperatures in the upper atmosphere which sustain the destructive chemcial processes, some are worse than others.) The steel used in the non-recycleable cans is obviously a non-renewable resource loss in this instance, and energy intensive to manufacture to boot. Not to mention the energy required to transport the gas canisters.
Roundup by comparison is produced from petroleum based feedstock via energy-guzzling refining plants, ('nuff said ! ) and the manufacturing process is long and involved, requiring lots of energy at every step. And despite the manufacturers hype, it does leave a residue in the soil, the long-term effects of which are simply not known. For all we know, it could be the next asbestos, DDT, whatever. Alternatively of course, it might be harmless - how lucky do you feel ?
Without a proper, universal energy auditing system in place in industry - never likely to happen - there is no way to compare the energy used by one option against the other. But the processes by which steel and butane are produced are much simpler and longer-established than that for modern herbicides, so there is a fair chance that they are more efficient and less energy intensive simply because economic competition has driven a lowering of costs.
You can pretty much tell which I favour. However the option I would normally use is polypropylene mulchmatting under a good two inches of gravel, and hoeing (doable even on a windy day) to remove the weeds on a regular basis. If you once let the rhizomes get through the matting....good luck. I'd head for the hills.
Under or between slabs....well sadly I have this problem to contend with at present and my plan of attack is to lift the slabs, lay plastic sheeting (which may leave plasticiser in the soil, you can use newspaper instead so I may), the usual sand on top of that, then re-lay the slabs, sprinkling either salt or cement dust under and/or between them to discourage weeds. Well laid concrete gives little quarter to the weeds, but cement production is pretty energy intensive and very environmentally unfriendly.
Clear as mud, innit ? You can see why my lot are so into "wildflower meadows"....

[CarolineSonning]

Many thanks all for your suggestions.

[heebiejeebie]

between slabs - I've had reasonable success killing weeds by dribbling the dregs from the kettle on small areas. Seems to last a few weeks and the hot water would otherwise go to waste.

Feel a bit guilty about the spiders though...

[martini]

Flame Gun

Caroline, if you opt for a flame gun Lidl are selling them from 7 Sept for �7.99 and the gas canisters are �1.99. They're also selling other gardening tools etc

[dexterdoglancashire]

sunbeam - yep, agree with you! dexterdog

[Nicos]

my vote is for round up ( extra stengtjh from all good farmers out-lets !!!)
would love to play with a flame gun.....???Xmas/birthday treat???? ( OH bound not to notice!!!)
garden centre round up just not strong enough.....go for farmer's strenghth!!

[burnie]

I used a gas canister flame gun and found it theraputic(?) but bloody useless at killing weeds.Being totally against any chemical control I now mow my paths at the same time as my lawns with a cheap rotary mower.

[nick the grief]

I used a gas canister flame gun and found it theraputic(?) but bloody useless at killing weeds..

Get a big petrol jobbie Burnie, far more theraputic & you can steralise soil with it.

[Snadger]

This is the sort of dilemna that I and my fellow Conservation Volunteers have to decide on all the time. Unfortunately, it is almost always a case of comparing apples and oranges for flavour; it boils down to, which do you prefer ? !
Gas powered flame guns, quite apart from being a wee bit dodgy to control in my admittedly limited experience, and more to the point not much use in windy conditions, use butane or propane gas, and steel. The fuels are greenhouse gases, and if I remember correctly ozone depleters too. (Although any gas that contributes to the greenhouse effect also contributes to ozone depletion indirectly, by leading to lower temperatures in the upper atmosphere which sustain the destructive chemcial processes, some are worse than others.) The steel used in the non-recycleable cans is obviously a non-renewable resource loss in this instance, and energy intensive to manufacture to boot. Not to mention the energy required to transport the gas canisters.
Roundup by comparison is produced from petroleum based feedstock via energy-guzzling refining plants, ('nuff said ! ) and the manufacturing process is long and involved, requiring lots of energy at every step. And despite the manufacturers hype, it does leave a residue in the soil, the long-term effects of which are simply not known. For all we know, it could be the next asbestos, DDT, whatever. Alternatively of course, it might be harmless - how lucky do you feel ?
Without a proper, universal energy auditing system in place in industry - never likely to happen - there is no way to compare the energy used by one option against the other. But the processes by which steel and butane are produced are much simpler and longer-established than that for modern herbicides, so there is a fair chance that they are more efficient and less energy intensive simply because economic competition has driven a lowering of costs.
You can pretty much tell which I favour. However the option I would normally use is polypropylene mulchmatting under a good two inches of gravel, and hoeing (doable even on a windy day) to remove the weeds on a regular basis. If you once let the rhizomes get through the matting....good luck. I'd head for the hills.
Under or between slabs....well sadly I have this problem to contend with at present and my plan of attack is to lift the slabs, lay plastic sheeting (which may leave plasticiser in the soil, you can use newspaper instead so I may), the usual sand on top of that, then re-lay the slabs, sprinkling either salt or cement dust under and/or between them to discourage weeds. Well laid concrete gives little quarter to the weeds, but cement production is pretty energy intensive and very environmentally unfriendly.
Clear as mud, innit ? You can see why my lot are so into "wildflower meadows"....

Roundup is Glyphostae based and you can supposedly drink it in concentrated form without ill effect (Don't try this at home anyone!)...haven't seen many reps prepared to give a practical demonstration though...............