To cloche or not to cloche - that is the question!

[everdream78]

Hi all,

I'm getting all confused and would appreciate some advice please!

Some books/magazines I've been reading are saying that I should be sowing overwinter seeds now, like peas and cabbage for an early spring crop.

Some are saying that I should be planting green manures instead.

And some are saying to cloche everything to let the weeds die out.

Now, I've got a major problem with bindweed but I've got about 10 cauliflowers just starting to fruit.

So... should I plant seeds or cloche the empty spaces?

Also, if I go for the cloches, should I dig in some compost before I do it, or leave the compost until next season?

I'm thinking of using thick, wet newspaper and grass cuttings for a cloche (this seems to be the most environmentally friendly way I've found so far) - any hints/tips?

TIA

Ed

[Cutecumber]

Hey! Take a breath. You are confusing yourself.

I don't think you have the right word here - a cloche is a small protected growing environment - sometimes made of glass, sometimes plastic.

I suspect you mean mulch.

Mulches can be used to prevent growth, like weeds, to prevent moisture loss, and/ or to add organic matter to the soil when dug in. Some do all of these, some only one. The wet newspaper and grass cuttings are mulches, yes, but they are different in their benefits.

At this time of year, you basically have to decide whether to use the ground you have for growing over the winter or to leave it unused (covered, or not). It's totally up to you what to do - the books only offer suggestions.

Your bindweed problem suggests that you might want to try and cover part of the ground to suppress its growth, but it needs longer term cover than just over one winter to do any good. Make a long term plan for eradicating the bindweed where you cover one part of the area for a longer period - this might weaken it enough to see it off eventually, fingers' crossed!

Forgetting the weeds, another choice is whether to add some organic matter to your soil in order to prepare the beds for growing next spring. It's rarely a bad idea. Some rotted manure, dug it in a bit, then covered with something to allow some moisture through, should help. You don't want the rain to leach out the nutrients, but you don't want to stop the rain getting to it completely. There are permeable fabrics available which are excellent at protecting the soil, and very low maintenance.

Alternatively, you could grow something (non productive), like a green manure, over the whole bed. Whilst it is growing, it stops leaching, and when you want to use the bed, you dig in the manure. The foliage rots down and gives its nutrients to the soil.

You mention peas and cabbage - yes, you could sow these and hopefully get an early spring crop. Bear in mind, however, that these are taking nutrients from the soil (especially the cabbage) that your next crop might need. It is not good practice to keep growing the same type of crop in one place - if you grow cabbages over winter, do not grow other brassicas there for a few years. If you grow continuously without adding more organic matter, you risk tiring out the soil and nothing will be happy growing there.

My advice is to look forward to next spring. Write down what you will be sowing and planting in your beds and when, then work backwards. If you want to grow crops there over the winter - this is completely your choice, don't let the books bully you!! - add this in to the mix. You should then see what "spare" ground you have, and you can try any, or all, of the options you have read about to cover it. See what works best.

So, don't panic - make a plan, and experiment a little. Don't forget to make a note of what you do, and when, so that you will have something to go on next Autumn.

[scared55]

Cor - what a brilliant reply, full and complete yet concise and simple enough for a pre-first-year grower like me to understand.

CC, you have not only answered everdream78's question but also anticipated a few follow-ons that I was formulating. Thank you so much.

KK

[moggssue]

Thanks from me as well Cc - I'm having the same dilema of to grow over winter or to manure and your reply is very helpful!!

[Cutecumber]

Thanks

I'm embarassed now though

The important thing is not to try and use all the information you have at once. Books and magazines - and people - give you options. They can't tell you what is right for you.

Suck in the information and play around with it - apply it in theory and see what you get. If it's a mess, then you've got too much information. Try it one bit at a time.

The best thing I've ever done was to draw diagrams of plots and write a timescale for my veggies. I have a long way to go, but it makes it easier to get there.

[everdream78]

Thank you!

Thanks for that Cutecumber!

You're right, I do get confused lol

I think I'll mulch most of it and dig in the compost next season

[veg4681]

CC, may I add that you've provided an utterly useful advice (so well put!) for first timers innundated with too much gardening info and still pretty clueless. I've decided that I won't bother with too much planning this year and next year as hopefully my soil (10 years pile of homemade compost) shouldn't get too exhausted that quickly...besides feeling safe in the knowledge that I have access to tons of chicken manure from an egg farm.

[Snadger]

Hey! Take a breath. You are confusing yourself.

I don't think you have the right word here - a cloche is a small protected growing environment - sometimes made of glass, sometimes plastic.

I suspect you mean mulch.

Mulches can be used to prevent growth, like weeds, to prevent moisture loss, and/ or to add organic matter to the soil when dug in. Some do all of these, some only one. The wet newspaper and grass cuttings are mulches, yes, but they are different in their benefits.

At this time of year, you basically have to decide whether to use the ground you have for growing over the winter or to leave it unused (covered, or not). It's totally up to you what to do - the books only offer suggestions.

Your bindweed problem suggests that you might want to try and cover part of the ground to suppress its growth, but it needs longer term cover than just over one winter to do any good. Make a long term plan for eradicating the bindweed where you cover one part of the area for a longer period - this might weaken it enough to see it off eventually, fingers' crossed!

Forgetting the weeds, another choice is whether to add some organic matter to your soil in order to prepare the beds for growing next spring. It's rarely a bad idea. Some rotted manure, dug it in a bit, then covered with something to allow some moisture through, should help. You don't want the rain to leach out the nutrients, but you don't want to stop the rain getting to it completely. There are permeable fabrics available which are excellent at protecting the soil, and very low maintenance.

Alternatively, you could grow something (non productive), like a green manure, over the whole bed. Whilst it is growing, it stops leaching, and when you want to use the bed, you dig in the manure. The foliage rots down and gives its nutrients to the soil.

You mention peas and cabbage - yes, you could sow these and hopefully get an early spring crop. Bear in mind, however, that these are taking nutrients from the soil (especially the cabbage) that your next crop might need. It is not good practice to keep growing the same type of crop in one place - if you grow cabbages over winter, do not grow other brassicas there for a few years. If you grow continuously without adding more organic matter, you risk tiring out the soil and nothing will be happy growing there.

My advice is to look forward to next spring. Write down what you will be sowing and planting in your beds and when, then work backwards. If you want to grow crops there over the winter - this is completely your choice, don't let the books bully you!! - add this in to the mix. You should then see what "spare" ground you have, and you can try any, or all, of the options you have read about to cover it. See what works best.

So, don't panic - make a plan, and experiment a little. Don't forget to make a note of what you do, and when, so that you will have something to go on next Autumn.

So if you had a cloche covering a mulch would you have a clulch or moche?

[Two_Sheds]

Excellent! LOL! ROFL!

I'd only add this: I'd rather grow something edible than non if at all poss, ie crops rather than green manure. But I'd rather have the soil covered with something useful than nothing/or weeds, so if no crops, sow a green manure. If green manure doesn't grab you, use a weed-suppressing mulch like your thick newspaper etc (look for a book called Lasagne Gardening in your library, it's good on mulches)

[nick nack]

TS

Put in lasagne gardening into google and came up with this? Interesting reading.

NN

http://ourgardengang.tripod.com/lasagna_gardening.htm

[scarey55]

You're right NN. Fascinating reading - I think I might have a go.
Thanks Two Sheds for pointing it out.

[scared55]

So if you had a cloche covering a mulch would you have a clulch or moche?

Or maybe a clutch ...

KK

[Kayt]

Wow!! I am learning so much already and love this idea of lasagne gardening on my new plot. Something else to add to the list