What order should I tackle jobs in on my new plot?

[AllotmentMummy]

So many questions, yet you answerd most of them your self. I have tried and failed at the no dig theory. In the end I compromised and covered as much as I could in cheap black plastic. Then in the spring rolled it back ( very mucky job) then dug up what weeds where left. Also I covered loads in cardboard but needed a ton of bricks to weigh it down

Hey Paul - sorry to hear no dig didn't work for you. How long were your mulches down for and what weeds were you up against?

[AllotmentMummy]

Hello AllotmentMumy, As Atta wrote, Pumpkins can cover a large area with big leaves something for Halloween next year? Also Courgettes have big leaves. 400sq.m. is a large area to get under control particularly organically (as you can tell from the state it is in now). A lot depends on what equipment you can use. I have several apple, pear, plum and damson trees planted in grass (very likely includes couch) and I mow it a few times a year about 4 this year with it being very dry and get what I consider to be good crops of fruit. Would be better may be if trees had no competition but they do OK - I bottled 30litres of apple juice this year and grass is good for children to play on.
I would leave asparagus this year, unless it is a must have crop as ideally it needs a completely perennial weed free bed. I might consider buying some seeds and growing in pots may be planting into a temporary bed when they are big enough and moving to their final position next winter/ early spring 2020 if you can clear a bed by then.

You could plant raspberries through weed suppressant. Some couch grass would likely come up through the holes but would be quite easy to keep on top of. You would need to check for new canes trying to grow under the fabric and give them a hand getting out.

Loving the idea of sprawling things that don't need many holes in the weed control fabric! Desperate to have some asparagus sooner rather than later as we might move in the future and every year counts. I might grow some from seed too from now though, so I have some more easily transplantable ones.


How much soil so you have around your trees? I was thinking of a small circle round each and the rest in grass (ideal for kids to play as you suggest).

[AllotmentMummy]

I tried to cover what I can as well. Phaccelia is good grpund cover and looks beautifull with flowers attracting bees.
What do you mean by going organic.For me its like I wouldnt use pesticides or herbicides (comfrey or nettle tea only) but for next season I am getting standard NPK fertilizer. Its very dissapointing when the veggies grow small.

Hey Atta - thanks for the ground cover suggestion. For me keeping it organic would be avoiding weed killers and using manures/leaf mould etc. for improving the soil. Will have to keep an eye on output size!

[Chestnut]

Awesome advice thanks Chestnut! Have planted some of the onions in pots - will it get frosty in the greenhouse (unheated) do you think?

If they’re autumn planting varieties, they should be ok even with the odd bit of frost. In the greenhouse they will be cosier - but you might need to take them out in spring so they don’t get too hot and bolt.
My plot has whiterot in the soil, and my garden is quite shady, so I havent had much luck with onions so far ;o

[Snoop Puss]

Hello and welcome.

Onions for planting out in autumn will do better in the ground or in pots rather than sitting around till spring. Overwintering onions and garlic are very hardy. You don't say where you are, but they're really unlikely to be bothered by frost inside or outside a greenhouse.

If you're likely to move, are you sure you want to go to the effort of putting in fruit trees? It could be years before you get a decent harvest. Might you do better with soft fruit instead (currant and gooseberry bushes)?

If you are keen to put in fruit trees, I'd put them in now (they do better planted earlier rather than later in spring).

Then tackle the beds. Cover as much as you can as deep as you can. Not easy to get all the material that you need for no-dig but it can be done. Don't forget you have to provide lots of mulch every year, not just the first year. So you'll be wanting to make room for compost bins or bays.

As for asparagus, it's more expensive buying in crowns than growing from seeds, but growing from seeds is a slow process and you wouldn't be putting the plants out till 2020 anyway (if I've understood the process of growing asparagus from seed), so it would give you another year to get the bed properly sorted rather than having to have it done in time for spring next year.

As Baldy says, don't panic. Lots of friendly folk on here willing to share experience and knowledge, so ask away.

Best wishes and good luck.

[AllotmentMummy]

If they’re autumn planting varieties, they should be ok even with the odd bit of frost. In the greenhouse they will be cosier - but you might need to take them out in spring so they don’t get too hot and bolt.
My plot has whiterot in the soil, and my garden is quite shady, so I havent had much luck with onions so far ;o

Really helpful info thanks Chestnut. Will keep them in the greenhouse and then bring them out in spring!

[AllotmentMummy]

Hello and welcome.

Onions for planting out in autumn will do better in the ground or in pots rather than sitting around till spring. Overwintering onions and garlic are very hardy. You don't say where you are, but they're really unlikely to be bothered by frost inside or outside a greenhouse.

If you're likely to move, are you sure you want to go to the effort of putting in fruit trees? It could be years before you get a decent harvest. Might you do better with soft fruit instead (currant and gooseberry bushes)?

If you are keen to put in fruit trees, I'd put them in now (they do better planted earlier rather than later in spring).

Then tackle the beds. Cover as much as you can as deep as you can. Not easy to get all the material that you need for no-dig but it can be done. Don't forget you have to provide lots of mulch every year, not just the first year. So you'll be wanting to make room for compost bins or bays.

As for asparagus, it's more expensive buying in crowns than growing from seeds, but growing from seeds is a slow process and you wouldn't be putting the plants out till 2020 anyway (if I've understood the process of growing asparagus from seed), so it would give you another year to get the bed properly sorted rather than having to have it done in time for spring next year.

As Baldy says, don't panic. Lots of friendly folk on here willing to share experience and knowledge, so ask away.

Best wishes and good luck.

Thanks for all the useful tips Snoop Puss, really helpful. I'm down south so quite mild here so agree the greenhouse is unlikely to get frosty inside. An allotment committee member encouraged me to put in fruit trees saying I'd get a harvest from year one or two but sounds like that may not be the case? I wanted to put something down that end of the plot so it is officially cultivated but I'm liking your idea of fruit bushes as an alternative!

I think I might dual run the asparagus and buy some crowns and grow some from seed. For the onward mulching of the plot yes its a bit of a burden. I have a tree to cut down which I am hoping to wood chip and get dropped off at the plot but it'll take several years for it to decompose I think? We have a good local farmer with lots of manure so that'll keep me going till then hopefully!

[bikermike]

if you put in raspberries, you can cover them from all known pests apart from the small child. Once they get the taste for them, you'll never see another berry again...

[Chestnut]

I haven’t planted any fruit trees yet, but I have been browsing websites trying to decide what to plant!

Our allotment site has a height limit for trees, so we don’t shade other plots too much, so I have only been looking at trees on dwarfing rootstocks. It seems that many of these will begin to produce fruit 1-3 years after planting, which is why they are often used for commercial orchards (as well as not need ing high ladders to harvest).

The advantage of planting now is that it gives you ‘cultivated area’ but less time spent harvesting for the first couple of years. Hopefully by then your little ones will be a bit more effective at ‘helping’ at harvest time ;-)

[Kirk]

I have the approach that organic and dig free sound really nice, but if you want it clear and things dead, then making them dead with extreme prejudice may be called for.

Laying cardboard will kill off the green stuff, but likely do little to the roots. And I guess the idea is to remove any covering and grow stuff in a few months. Believe me those roots and weed seeds are just waiting for that time.

Guess 3 years and better 5 years of cover will do more, but equally guess the whole lot covered for that time is not an option, or not a sensible option.

No weed is going to roll over and die at the sight of a layer or two of cardboard.

Digging the perennial weeds out is good. Takes time and effort. But damn it gets you fit (fitter).

Mine was done with the extreme prejudice method - 2 good sprays of glyphosphate, 10 days apart. Then I dug it. That was the only time I had to use it, and that was 25+ years ago.

If you want the weeds dead then you cannot realistically be nice to them.

[MyWifesBrassicas]

I find mulch, mulch and more mulch, it's early days.
In a nutshell, if you want no dig, then I think you need obtain/make as much compost as you can obtain or dig.

5 years ago, I obtained mine in March and I rotavated the entire lot, everything including horse tail, bindweed and couch grass and countless other perennial weeds. It was completely overgrown and hadn't been used for over 20 years for growing, it had been a builders dumping area in between that.
I made the decision to rotavate as I was eager to grow and the season was upon me, I thought I could manage the immense newly chopped weeds as the came up and oh my word, they grew and I was able to cultivate some produce, mostly potatoes, jerusalem artichokes, courgette and squash.

If I'd obtained my plot in Nov/Dec, then I'd have probably have done the same.
In hindsight though, cover it up in as much free cardboard as you can find, it's everywhere. Aim for large pieces of brown cardboard, loads of it. Small pieces blow away, if you have small pieces, put then under big pieces and use cardboard that's not coated in waterproofing/plastic and harmful inks.
If you have a nearby industrial estate, they'll gladly give you as much as you want, its a pain for them to get rid of. Layer it as much as you want, more the better, it rots quickly.
You've got another few months to think about what you want to do, but as baldy say's, don't panic.

[Mark_Riga]

"How much soil so you have around your trees?"

None, just mow right up to them, but not too often as you can see. A picture of katy from a couple of years ago. An early apple that doesn't keep very well but is very nice.

[AllotmentMummy]

I haven’t planted any fruit trees yet, but I have been browsing websites trying to decide what to plant!

Our allotment site has a height limit for trees, so we don’t shade other plots too much, so I have only been looking at trees on dwarfing rootstocks. It seems that many of these will begin to produce fruit 1-3 years after planting, which is why they are often used for commercial orchards (as well as not need ing high ladders to harvest).

The advantage of planting now is that it gives you ‘cultivated area’ but less time spent harvesting for the first couple of years. Hopefully by then your little ones will be a bit more effective at ‘helping’ at harvest time ;-)

Thanks Chestnut, that's really useful to know about the time to yields for dwarf trees. Might go for a couple I think!