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[Mikey]

I've managed to speak to both of VC's suggestions, though be able to taste varieties looks like its going to be a problem.

How can you pick an apple based on its characteristics when most of what the supermarket sells are so poor in comparison. There's no point of reference.

I'm lost again.

[veggiechicken]

Try a different take on this Mikey! You want 12 apples so look for 12 that will spread the crop over as long a time as possible. Do you want eaters or cookers or both?
Ask for recommendations on here and draw up a short list. Then find out stockists for those apples.
You won't be tasting apples until the autumn anyway so you may as well plan now

[Mikey]

Well, I want 2 cooker, and 10 eaters. I'd like a spread on the season, earlies for eating in autumn, and some that will keep well into winter. At the moment we like different apples in the house, which we currently get from the supermarket. I'm a big fan of sharp sweet apples like cox and granny smith, my daughter prefers the subtler flavour of pink lady. I tried a supermarket russet last year and found them very unpleasant and floury, though mountain cider said they should be crunchy, so I guess this wan't a very good storing variety.

So if anyone wants to recommend some varieities I would say start with something that fruits around August/September and have pairs of varieties that crop Sept/Oct, Oct/Nov, and 4 good storers.

Could anyone recommend varieties they have that would fit this bill?

[veggiechicken]

Now we're getting somewhere
At the Riverside Farmer's market I've seen the Apple man (don't know what his name is) but he brings along apples in season - all named varieties - and they would be locally grown. Just another way of tasting them!!

[veggiechicken]

This must be the Apple man Old Sandlin Fruit | Producer Direct
He's there August to February. Time for you to stop buying apples in supermarkets and buy real apples

[FB.]

If I lived in Wales, I'd be inclined to look at old Welsh varieties because they would generally be expected to perform well - and ripen properly - in the local conditions. Grow the same variety in two different parts of the UK and you might think they were not the same because of the variation in soil, climate, sunshine and rainfall.
When someone says an apple is unpleasant yet someone else says it's delicious, it may in part be differences in soil or climate.

Speak to the nursery and ask for recommendations of rare Welsh varieties which meet your needs for cropping season, uses and flavours.

[yummersetter]

I'm chucking James Grieve and Kidd's Orange Red into the ring for starters.

[orangepippin]

I would not rely too much on "local" varieties, for the following reasons:

1. Other areas may have similar climates to yours - and *their* local varieties might therefore suit your area too. The climates of Cumbria, and north west Scotland have a lot of similarities with central Wales.

2. Varieties arising during or after the Victorian era are often not as local as they seem. Is Laxton's Superb really suited to the climate of Bedfordshire, or do we just say that because it was developed there by the Laxton Bros nursery? Even the famous Yorkshire variety Ribston Pippin was almost certainly imported as a seedling from France.

3. Climates change and what may have been suitable 200 years ago might not be now.

4. The place of origin of a variety is not a reliable indication of how it will perform in other climates. Take Cox and Bramley for example, originating at roughly the same time, probably only 100 miles apart in the mild dri-ish climate of central England. One is quite happy to be grown in the all-round sunshine of Los Angeles and the other isn't.

5. Varieties that are not local to your area are arguably less likely to be known to the local pest population, and might be less likely to succumb to local diseases.

[Mikey]

I've just emailed both suppliers with some more info in a hope that they will come up with some recommendations.

The riverside market is that down by Cardiff Stadium VC, or is it the one in the centre of town?

Interesting comments Orangepippin, because I'm quite close to the coast my climate is wet and mild. I don't suffer with salty air, I'm about 3 miles inland.

[veggiechicken]

Its on the banks of the Taff, across the river from the Arms Park (as was).

[Mikey]

I've never been there chook, to close to the city centre for me. Its a while since I last visited Cardiff central. I don't know what it is about Cardiff, I lived there for 7 years and now would rather not go there at all.

I'm off to watch Hairspray down the bay next week, but thats about as close as I get!!!

[veggiechicken]

I haven't been to town since last year either! Too many people for my liking
If I have any garden apples you can try those. Trouble is, I don't know what most of them are I think I have Brownlees Russet though and they are lovely apples

[FB.]

I would not rely too much on "local" varieties, for the following reasons:

1. Other areas may have similar climates to yours - and *their* local varieties might therefore suit your area too. The climates of Cumbria, and north west Scotland have a lot of similarities with central Wales.

2. Varieties arising during or after the Victorian era are often not as local as they seem. Is Laxton's Superb really suited to the climate of Bedfordshire, or do we just say that because it was developed there by the Laxton Bros nursery? Even the famous Yorkshire variety Ribston Pippin was almost certainly imported as a seedling from France.

3. Climates change and what may have been suitable 200 years ago might not be now.

4. The place of origin of a variety is not a reliable indication of how it will perform in other climates. Take Cox and Bramley for example, originating at roughly the same time, probably only 100 miles apart in the mild dri-ish climate of central England. One is quite happy to be grown in the all-round sunshine of Los Angeles and the other isn't.

5. Varieties that are not local to your area are arguably less likely to be known to the local pest population, and might be less likely to succumb to local diseases.

Certain "local" varieties were grown because very few varieties did well in that area. Some varieties labelled as "poor" in modern times are poor because they simply don't like an easy life!
Many of the really old varieties are at their best when grown on vigorous rootstocks in conditions where few of the modern varieties would survive - and probably why there are so many triploids among the old suvivors. The big rootstock balancing the awful conditions to make a modest-sized, manageable bush-tree.

On the other hand, the more a variety is grown - especially in close proximity - the more chance of pests and diseases breaking through their resistance. But, really, how many gardens in my locality will be growing Norfolk Beefing or D'Arcy Spice or Brownlees' Russet? (those being varieties fairly local to me)
As for "Llandinam Permain" I've never heard of it. How many people will be growing one of those, even in Wales? So if very few people are growing it, there won't be locally-adapted disease strains.

Also, although a climate may be similar in terms of rainfall, it may not be similar in terms of seasonal temperatures, sun strength, length of growing season or the type/depth/fertility of the soil.

[FB.]

Looking at the "Welsh Mountain Cider" stocklist and eliminating the "Welsh local varieties", from personal experience of the all-round characteristics of the tree (health, cropping, season and fruit quality), I'd shortlist - in alphabet order:

Alfriston
Ashmead's Kernel (excellent performer in the cold wet year of 2012)
Beauty of Bath
Brownlees' Russet (unusually medium pink blossom - quite different to the usual white with a hint of pink)
Discovery (not sure about sufficient canker resistance for a wet climate)
Edward VII
Gravenstein (I'm finding this to be one of my happiest and healthiest in the cold, wet, sunless climate of 2012-13).
Irish Peach
Reverend Wilks
Ribston Pippin
Rosemary Russet
Scotch Bridget
Striped Beefing
Winter Gem (not sure it has any better than average canker resistance so not sure about durability in wet climates)

Others not listed in their stocklist which I'd consider:

Annie Elizabeth
Belle de Boskoop
Early Victoria (Emneth Early)
Gladstone
Grenadier
Hambledon Deux Ans
Scrumptious
Tower of Glamis

.....and any old variety listed as triploid or suspected of being - apart from the too-widely-grown Bramley and possibly Blenheim Orange which are so widely grown that some areas have diseases adapted to attack them.

The variety "Gladstone" (not listed in the Welsh nursery but available from some others) was found growing as a wild tree near Kidderminster, so it must be a fairly tough variety - and it's not commonly grown.

[Mikey]

I've read somewhere that cordons are best fruiting on spurs rather than tip bearing so should I be avoiding the tip bearers.