Mystery cane fruit identification

[ameno]

I have a mystery cane fruit on my allotment which came with the plot, and which I recently transplanted, but I have no idea what it is. I would post a picture, but this time of year they are basically just bare stems.

-They grow like raspberries (spreading underground and sending up individual upright canes).
-Are thornless.
-Have slightly red-tinged green stems and leaf stems (even on second year canes).
-The canes are fairly thick for their length and have an angular (I want to say pentagonal) cross-section, rather like wild bramble stems.
-The leaflets are usually in fives, and are arranged palmate like a blackberry leaf, rather than pinnate like a raspberry leaf.
-Have smallish round black fruit rather like small blackberries, and are possibly the most delicious cane fruit I have ever tasted, incredibly sweet and fruity (at least when fully ripe; they're kind of bitter when under ripe).

Anyone recognise it?

[burnie]

Sounds like a bit of a puzzle, are you sure they are not just wild blackberries, they can have small fruits, which are nicer flavoured than the big commercially grown ones.

[quanglewangle]

Even experts are challenged by identifying Rubus. See last sentence of thequote.

They also hybridize readily.
.

Rubus (Rosaceae) comprises more than 500 species with additional commercially cultivated raspberries and blackberries. The most recent (> 100 years old) global taxonomic treatment of the genus defined 12 subgenera; two subgenera were subsequently described and some species were rearranged. Intra- and interspecific ploidy levels and hybridization make phylogenetic estimation of Rubus challenging

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...019.01615/full

[nickdub]

I think you can rule out any of the common types as I've grown most of them, and your description does not fit any of them.

You could try posting a picture later in the year when they have leaves and flowers to see if anyone knows what they are.

[Jungle Jane]

Boysenberries are black & leaves sound similar?

[ameno]

Sounds like a bit of a puzzle, are you sure they are not just wild blackberries, they can have small fruits, which are nicer flavoured than the big commercially grown ones.

Definitely not wild blackberry. These are thornless, grow only short-ish canes, and spread underground like raspberries do, whereas brambles are very thorny, have great long canes, and don't spread underground, but rather by layering themselves instead.

We also already have lots of wild blackberries near the allotment. There's a whole area of waste ground half the size of the whole allotment which is covered in nothing but brambles. It's a sea of pink when they are in flower, and they produce excellent fruit - very sweet and juicy, and very large, probably the largest I have ever seen from a wild blackberry (the tip fruit of each cluster, which is always the largest, is regularly a full inch in diameter).

Boysenberries are black & leaves sound similar?

I did wonder if it might be boysenberry, but all of the pictures I can find of it show it to have long fruit, the same shape as a loganberry, whereas the fruit on mine are always short and round.

[nickdub]

Boysenberries are tip rooters like blackberries. They do not spread underground like raspberries.

[Babru]

Sounds like you're onto a winner there ameno. Thornless is even better.

[ameno]

Sounds like you're onto a winner there ameno. Thornless is even better.

It doesn't seem the most vigorous of soft fruit, but then where it was growing was pretty densely weedy (bindweed and grass, mainly). That's why I dug it out and transferred it to a new, freshly weeded bed, where I can look after it better, and also keep it fed without worrying about feeding the weeds.

[ameno]

As promised, here are some pictures of the plants:
https://i.imgur.com/po6Ep7Z.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/7fHZVtN.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/E1CaJSK.jpg

First is the whole plant, then a close up of the new canes, then a close up of the flowers.

Only the new, first-year canes have 5 leaflets. The second year canes have 3 leaflets.
Flowers grow in very large clusters (8-12 per cluster).

Anyone recognise them?

[Purple Primrose]

No idea what it is but it's certainly flowering well.

[Nicos]

I’ve no idea either but as PP says....what an amazing amount of flowers! Most impressed

[nickdub]

I don't recognise it either. I wonder if it might be a naturally occurring hybrid of some kind ?

[Right Shed Fred]

Did this mystery ever get solved? A delicious, thornless cane fruit that flowers (and therefore presumably fruits) like crazy?

[Muddy_Boots]

Could be a Tayberry they are thornless have loads of flowers and the fruit are bitter until ripe and then are the sweetest one I've tasted and are very dark red.