Soil problems perhaps?

[Guzzik]

just a quick thought - was your muck well rotted? If the straw/hay wasn't rotted before it went in the ground it could have been taking up the nitrogen to rot it down. The nitrogen will be returned into the soil once it has done its job to break down the organic matter, which will then be beneficial to the soil and your crops.

Now then, this is quite correct Emily. The "muck" wasn't rotted at all hence all the straw and half bales of hay it contained. Funnily enough, while I was pulling beetroot this morning, a weed came up attached to a great lump of straw that was bone dry.............This made me go and dig up another great lump of this "stuff" and IT was bone dry as well and had not even started to rot down. The "muck " was dug in from November to January.

Infact, more or less all of us have had a right old whinge about the state of the "muck" to oour committee, not their problem but.....

So, is my thinking correct that lack of adequate water/rain etc is to blame for this "stuff" not breaking down?

[Two_Sheds]

You need to rot the manure down before you apply it to your plot ...

[shirlthegirl43]

It needs to be quite well rotted before you spread it on or dig it into your beds. Hey ho, it's all part of the learning curve

[zazen999]

Now then.........I saw somewhere else a post about this "stuff" being re introduced and the "government" is doing nothing about it. The latest info I was told is that the onus will be on the farmer to NOT sell/give away his muck for one year............Or otherwise allow the stuff to leave his/her land for one year..........Wonder how this will work

a - the government not only are doing nothing, they let it be re-licenced for sale.

b - it doesn't matter how long the farmer keeps it on his land; it doesn't start to break down and thus affect the plants until it is shoveled onto soil and the bacteria work on it. So it could be on a farmer's land for 10 years, and it will still kill your potatoes as soon as you plant them out.

c - it is supposed to be used under new 'stewardship' guidelines - apparently they are 'strict'. However people I know who are farmers or in agriculture don't even know about the problem unless they have been caught themselves....or they don't care.


It's gonna be around for a long time yet.

[Guzzik]

You need to rot the manure down before you apply it to your plot ...

Mmmmmmmmm, my tutors at college told us this and normally I do compost it down but, as I posted earlier, I am NOT listening to the "experts" down the allotment anymore, THEY told us just to go ahead and dig it in and it will rot in the soil. So, everyone has done so. Maybe I ididn't dig it in deep enough. I don't know. Suffice that we now know it is the weather etc and not the poison. Good enough for me. Maybe I will put me coller on and come down and pray for a week of rain..................Sigh.

[teakdesk]

It might be worth you doing a PH test on various parts of the plot. I'm sure it is not your "major" problem but it might just give you an edge in the growing stakes!

[Guzzik]

It might be worth you doing a PH test on various parts of the plot. I'm sure it is not your "major" problem but it might just give you an edge in the growing stakes!

Ph was fine, Nitrogen, Phosphates etc were all very, very low indeed. One test is meant to turn red.............It didn't quite make it to very light pinkish white!! Will be taking more samples on Saturday and dry them out overnight and retest on Sunday.

[Snadger]

Ph was fine, Nitrogen, Phosphates etc were all very, very low indeed. One test is meant to turn red.............It didn't quite make it to very light pinkish white!! Will be taking more samples on Saturday and dry them out overnight and retest on Sunday.

I could understand the Nitrogen and Potasium being low as these two elements are very 'leachable'. However the majority of soils are rich in phosphates and usually can do without additional phosphate for many a year. As phosphates help seedlings develop their roots, their could possibly be a link there.
I must admit that I must be the exception to the rule as I usually sow the majority of MY legumes direct, without any problems. I cover area with chicken mesh to keep out mice and birds though!
Another thing that crossed my mind was that if underground manure was not composted, it would begin to compost itself in the soil giving off methane and ammonia gas I would think, which would scorch any seeds or seedlings?

[Two_Sheds]

if underground manure was not composted, it would begin to compost itself in the soil giving off methane and ammonia gas I would think, which would scorch any seeds or seedlings?

and wouldn't it rob nitrogen from the surrounding soil as it rots?

[teakdesk]

I seem to remember that years ago people would spread PARTIALLY rotted manure (not fresh) on the top of the soil over winter while there were no crops there.

I think the idea was that the manure would rot further on the surface without taking anything from the soil and the rain and worms would distribute nutrients into the soil.

Laying on the surface it formed a mulch keeping nutrients in the soil and suppressed weeds in the same way as any mulch would.

In spring the manure would have rotted enough to be dug into the soil in the same way as a green manure.

Un-rotted manure is not a "killer" to soil as such.... after all, cows restore nutrients to fields with their fresh manure!!

[Guzzik]

I will post the results of my testing over the next couple of days guys. Might show something is missing or not. Only thing to remember is NOT to use tap water for the testing when mixing the powders etc............Tends to show a nigh on perfect Ph.