Pumpkin/Squash Advice from seedaholics please

[Small pumpkin]

Wow thank you sparrow
That's it then, decided! I need a considerable bigger garden
I'll be back soon, have to google that lot! They sound brilliant, but want to see pretty pictures

[Zelenina]

If this had been the grand squash-growing year that I intended, and I'd grown out all the squash varieties in my stash plus a few more from my wish list, I'd be able to advise you better. But it turned out to be a grand pepper and chilli year instead and I didn't grow any squashes, except for one very late sown Strawberry Crown plant that I managed to defend from the slugs. I have done a lot of research on varieties so I'll give you my suggestions, although I might not be able to limit myself to seven.

I've got my list down to 8 varieties from 4 different suppliers.

Uchiki kuri
Black futsu
Boston squash ( yellow, semi crook )
Thelma Sanders sweet potato ( white, acorn )
Galeux D'Eysines ( peach, warty )
Pumpkin hooligan ( mottled orange, white & green, little fella )
Pumpkin kakai ( orange with black stripes)
Pumpkin lil' pump-ke-mom ( white with orange strips )

I need to get it down to 7 varieties! Which would you lose?

They will be growing alongside
Small sugar ( alway grow )
Vegetable spaghetti ( alway grow)
Turks turban, sweet dumpling, Queensland blue, summer sunburst ( all having a second chance, because like VC has already said, it's been a horrible year for cucurbits, & because I have seeds left )

First, the two you always grow are both C. pepo squashes so other pepos should do fine for you. C. maxima varieties should do ok as well, and generally store longer than the pepos. But C. moschata varieties need more heat so I would think you are too far north for them to do well. Also varieties with very big fruit will probably be harder to mature and ripen in your climate.

So I'd say, drop Black Futsu because it's a C. moschata variety.

Drop the Boston Squash (maxima) because it grows pretty huge, (look at the Bakers Creek piccies) and you have Uchiki Kuri which is like a smaller, smoother version of it. If you really want to try a Hubbard type there are some smaller ones e.g. Sibley or Anna Swartz or Blue Ballet.

Drop the Kakai because it's just for seeds and the flesh isn't nice.

Drop one or other of the small ones, Hooligan and Pump-ke-mon, because you've already got Sweet Dumpling which is similar but non-hybrid.

That leaves the maximas Uchiki Kuri which I know is good and reliable, and Galeux d'Eysines which looks like fun and is said to be easy to grow in the UK, plus the pepos Thelma Sanders which is on my wishlist due to lots of great reviews, and one of the little'uns.

So what to add to those? First maximas:
As I said, Crown Prince (F1) is very good. I've grown it twice and both times it surprised me by producing an extra squash at the end of the season when I though it was half dead and the weather much too cold. It's medium sized and very good to eat and stores very well.

I don't usually grow hybrids but another one I want to try is Sunshine F1 which Carol Deppe says is always good, even in a bad year for her other squash. But it looks rather like a flatter Uchiki Kuri so maybe you don't want both.

Sparrow's favourites, Flat White Boer and Georgia Candy Roaster, are also maximas. They are both on my wishlist and would give you plenty of variety in appearance. Blue Kuri is a good smallish blue-grey one, and there's a green Kuri too, or Buttercup (Burgess) which looks a bit different with a blocky shape and a button on the end.

Now the pepos:
A delicata would give you a longer shape and are very tasty. The usual one is Cornell's Bush but I've seen Honey Boat in UK catalogues recently, and someone here grew it and posted photos. I'll try to remember who it was. Sucrette that Sparrow likes is, I think, a pepo and looks different from everything else. I have seeds for it but haven't grown them yet. I'm also tempted by Winter Luxury which looks similar to Small Sugar but has an attractive netted surface like some melons. You've got a cream acorn squash, Thelma Sanders, but maybe you'd like a dark green one as well for contrast e.g. Tuffy that NG likes, or one of the Table Queens/Kings etc.

Another thing that might be relevant is that some varieties are traditional long trailers and others are bush or semi-bush that take up less room. It should tell you that in the descriptions when you goggle them. Though I find catalogue descriptions are not always reliable, and they often get the species wrong too.

[Snoop Puss]

Zelenina, I'm bookmarking this page for future reference. That's a fantastic run-down. Thanks.

[burnie]

I've made this a sticky for now as it seems both popular and a mine of information.

[Small pumpkin]

Zelenina thank you. That is one awesome list.
That will keep me very busy juggling all of those varieties and all the one previously mentioned.
Think I might be reducing my courgette plants to one next year so I can fit a couple more squash in
Do you think the landlords will be very upset if I turn there silage field into a pumpkin & squash bed?

[Small pumpkin]

Here is one of the reasons I ask for advice. My squash & pumpkins so far this year. Please feel free to advice farther or point and laugh!
Will start with my always grow
Small sugar, 4 fruit from one plant.


Vegetable spaghetti, realistically 6 fruit from 2 plants ( maybe a few more if I'm lucky)
These will be growing up a frame next year, fruit will get supported as and when needed.


Now for the......they might come to something

Jumbo pink banana, 1 plant, 1 fruit. What do you think?


Chicago warted Hubbard, 1 plant, one fruit. I like him, he's a funny shape. Don't know if he'll get much bigger.

[Small pumpkin]

They might come to something, continued

Tromboncino, the last week or so he seems to have started to put a bit of effort into growing. No sure I'm going to get anything real off him.


Turks turban one plant, one fruit. Not sure his top bit has formed properly and it's starting to fester! He'll come off in the next day or two, see if there is anything salvageable from the bottom bit.


Next we have.....you're just not going to are you?

Sweet dumpling, 2 plants. As you can see very small plant, 3 even smaller fruit. Second plant same size but seems to have only male flowers?


Queensland blue 1 plant. It should of done a little more growing than that by now?

[Small pumpkin]

You're just not going to are you? Continues

Acorn table King 1 plant, very small, again should be a little farther along in the growing, me thinks.


Finally we have doing ok ( not brilliant), not growing again

Wee-be-little 1 plant, not keen on climbing ( here anyway). Had one fruit already, and there's a couple more coming.


Hundred weight ( Humphrey). He's not massive and he's not been well, but I think he's brilliant. How do you know when he's ready for picking? he's not got any bigger for a couple of weeks now. Bit of the plant have been dieing off, but not the stem he's growing on.

[Zelenina]

Well I'm fairly sure that Mull doesn't have the ideal climate for squash, so very well done with all of those!

The Small Sugar and Vegetable Spaghetti are looking great. As I said, those two are both C. pepo varieties, and that is the species that seems best able to cope with cooler summers. The traditional British marrow is a pepo squash, and it's only in quite recent years that People have been growing much of any other kinds in the UK. So more pepos could be good.

The not so Jumbo Pink Banana and the Chicago Hubbard are both C. maxima, which maybe likes your climate a bit less than the pepos do. And they both grow pretty big squashes in their ideal conditions.

There probably are some C. maxima varieties on my list (and some not on it) that will do better for you than those. Ones with smaller fruit probably, and maybe semi-bush types with smaller vines too.

Also, it may be less interesting but I think you have a better chance if you pick varieties that are grown more commonly in the UK than those two. Maybe ones that are stocked in several UK catalogues, or that members here have grown successfully. If you can get one or two reliable varieties you can experiment later with more exotic ones.

[Zelenina]

Ah, you posted some more while I was writing. The Tromboncino is looking good. It's a C. moschata but you're supposed to eat them immature like courgettes, so they don't need a long hot summer for maturing and ripening. Those two look eatable now.

I can see that Humphrey is a C. maxima because he's attached to that distinctive thick round corky stalk. If you could do some closeups of the stalk of a tromboncino and one of the pepos e.g. the small sugar or Spaghetti, it would be useful to show people how to tell the difference.

The Sweet Dumpling is maybe disproving my theories about pepos and small fruited squash doing better in your climate. It maybe has more to do with the individual variety than the general type. So just keep trying different ones until you hit on one that clicks.

[Small pumpkin]

Thanks again zelenina .I didn't realise I could eat the Tromboncino now. I've only ever seen pictures of them big. You've just made me very happy .
Close up photo of the stalks will be done tomorrow. While I have a close inspection myself. I've not really noticed before, but now you mention it, they are very different.

So if I put this into terms a 4 year old would understand ( that would be me ! ).
C. Pepo = good
C. Moschata = 50/50
C. Maxima = forget it.
Have I missed any?
Like I said, thank you so much. I really enjoy growing them, but I feel I should really get more than 6 fruit from one 24ft X 4ft bed. So yes I'd like pretty and unusual, but I'll happily settle for a crop of tasty. So I at least feel I'm not wasting my money, space and time.

[sparrow100]

Could the lack of fruit be from lack of food? My bigger squash plants tend only to give 1-2 fruit per plant and I am assuming I haven't fed or watered enough.

My top tip for next season is burying the vine about 2-3 leaves away from and either side of the fruits. It will root, and that creates both more food for the fertilised female flower but also makes more vigourous growth further on for additional fruits. Where I've done it, the second fruit on that vine is almost as big as the first. Where I haven't, there's a noticeable size difference.

My interpretation of what others have said is pepo & maxima will be ok, moschata is more of a gamble. Sucrette is a pepo. And seeds will only be available through HSL or the VSP or a kindly grower if you know one.... For what it's worth, North Georgia Candy Roaster is a smaller (3-4kg) banana squash and you should get 2 fruits per plant.

I've had a lot of problems again with fruit setting. As an example, about half of the Sucrette fruits aborted and I don't know why. I hand-pollinated early in the morning, with male flowers from 4-5 other plants (8 Sucrette plants currently) and they still failed. Is there any evidence about (not massive) temperature fluctuations and fruit set?

There has to have been something, because it happened to fruits on all my plants.

(I will still have squashes to donate to friends though, cos I grew a silly number of plants!)

Am getting in as many as I can now, as our site has developed a rat problem. (foxes, people feeding them, open compost heaps with kitchen waste, lethargic local cats)

[Zelenina]

My interpretation of what others have said is pepo & maxima will be ok, moschata is more of a gamble.

Yes, that's more or less it. C. pepo are usually the easiest and you already have three doing reasonably well. C. maxima should do ok too but you might need to select your varieties more carefully. C. moschata is generally less likely to mature fruits in the north, although your Tromboncino looks like quite a vigorous plant, so they obviously can grow there.

But that's just a rough rule of thumb. Plants don't always read the rule book. there's a lot of difference between varieties of the same species so you could find moschatas that are tougher or earlier maturing and do well and wimpy pepos that don't.

I also find there's often a lot of difference between individual plants of the same variety. So if something does badly you might just have picked the wrong seed to sow. It can be good to sow more than you need and weed out the weakest. Especially if you save seeds, because then you are selecting for something better adapted to your conditions.

I've been thinking that varieties with smaller vines might do better because they need less sunshine to grow, but it might be the opposite, that big rampant bullies of plants are the ones tough enough to survive. Experimentation is needed.

I've also found that most squashes can be eaten immature like courgettes if they don't ripen before the frost comes.

[Small pumpkin]

Ye see, you have to idiot proof things when I'm around! I got maxima & moschata the wrong way round .

As requested close up photos of stalks.

Here's C. Pepo - pumpkin small sugar


Here's C. Maxima - pumpkin hundred weight

[Thelma Sanders]

Here, my big squash (Jarrahdale, Flat White Boer) have set 1 or 2 (big) fruits, before the mildew and bad weather stopped the plants. So I've brought the fruits inside to ripen fully.
The smaller fruited types Celebration, Thelma Sanders, Potimarron, Burgess Buttercup, Table Gold, Golden Hubbard and Blue Ballet are still growing strongly on the plot.

The Tromba has struggled all year, just one might make it home! Worst year ever and I 've been growing it for 9 years I think we've had too many cool nights this year)