the organic brigade

[Tigerella]

Hi

Can I join, it seems it would be a very small group.

My dislike of chemicals is not just what they do to the wildlife.
But my question is to all you people who use these chemicals, would you be happy to have a chemical plant that produce weed killers on your street?

Whatever we do people make mistakes, so wether its chemicals for weedkillers or washing powder, if you use them, dont be a nimby.

Tigerella

[Alison]

I'd agree with you on that one Tigeralla. I wouldn't want a chemical plant near me either. Don't use weed killers and wouldn't do unless totally necessary, likewise don't take medication myself unless it's really needed. However it is worth noting that some organically registered products aren't exactly 'nice' either.

[Norm]

If I look east, I can see ICI where they produce the plastic for the bottles which are filled with the weedkiller I can buy from the shop I see when I look north west. They're not in my back yard, I'm in theirs!
I don't do organic, I don't do PC. I won't call failure a "deferred success" or a problem a "solution opportunity".
I'm 52 years old and been successfully growing veg for the last 30 of them. When I grow veg, I eat them, not the bugs and slugs. If they try, they die.

[Tigerella]

Hi

Where I live in West Yorkshire the local council have a policy that supports the building of an incinerator to burn excess green waste, as long as they dont build it in this town!
A little silly as the smoke will go whichever way the wind is blowing.

Tigerella

[yoanbob]

hi, I'm organic, use biodegradeable washing powder and everything, but if i have to resort to poison for the rats i will.

[beefy]

I'll tell you a little story Tigerella and see what you make of it.About 40 years ago in Coleraine (close to where I live and where I work) there was a chemical plant. Some of the waste was discharged into the River Bann - it just ran down a pipe into the river and nobody cared. Then one day about 15 years after the plant opened somebody noticed that nothing was growing around where the pipe entered the river so samples were taken for testing. Soon after the discharge was stopped .

The company - Monsanto.


The discharge?- Its now called Roundup.


Chemical factories are not very nice places but they provide jobs -so if you are going to close them all let me ask you a question - what do you do with all the people that you have put on the dole queue.
We all have our views on the Neclear Industry but in and around Selafield the people are campaining to have more neclear related jobs because it brings jobs and most importantly money to the area.
Its nice to have the courage of your convictions and to be able to live that way but, before you close this and ban that remember that for the people who work in these industries chemicals etc put the money on the table and pay the bills.

[Paulottie]

contra 'organic' non brigade

There are so many ways I try and make a small difference....

I reuse; recycle; adapt; compost; turn off lights; avoid flying; work where I live; and try to locally source food that does not come in plastic; I pay more to avoid supermarkets; their food miles; obscene profits and unethical out of season shrink-wrapped rubbish; I pick up litter; save water and grow my own food. I try to avoid chemicals -as it has taken many years to achieve a balance in my garden. Many chemicals are also expensive and unpleasant/hazardous to use. We put our two children through cotton nappies -centrally laundered (but then the cotton industry uses far more pesticides than food production) we deny them fast food and try to stear them away from plastic toys.

All of the above I endeavour to do because I want to and I can, and because if my family can, then others will realise the value and that they can and by the power of positive thinking, the tide will turn. But I don't get on my biodegradable soapbox or patronise other peoples choises or beat myself up if I occasionally employ a chemical (paint the door say) or eat frozen peas.

There are many people on this planet and they need to feed and house themselves and, unfortunately, they generate rubbish. I don't like big business or pollution much or have all the answers but (eg.) Perhaps an efficient incinerator might produce power and less local pollution. Many years ago when I gave up using chemicals on myself I learnt a prayer..."God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can change and the wisdom to know the difference."

I like many others am just doing my best. I object to people preaching at me and I dislike the word 'organic' and it's ludicrous price tag. This is not just a marketing fad for me, So kindly keep these patronising militant political agendas in the general chatroom; don't make assumptions about others and let's get back to the subject of veg growing. You choose for yourself whether to live where you do, use chemicals or employ our suggestions.

[Tigerella]

Hi

[QUOTE][I object to people preaching at me /QUOTE]

Not sure if you are talking about me? I dont think airing my views in a thread on its own would count as preaching.
We are all a part of society and we all polute in some way, I dont claim to be totaly pure.
Indeed if wiping out 20% of the birds and the bees would make us all happier and heathier, maybe I could live with that.
But I think the opposite would be true.
And on the subject of jobs, big business always try to make things cheaper using less people, not the other way around.

Tigerella

[Paulottie]

I don't wish to argue with anyone Tigrella. Infact, I sypathise and agree with most of your views, but then life is not as simple as your original statement implies. There are many paradoxs that we face and all we can do is our small bit and suggest to others there may be an alternative. Unfortunately those in power think that by taxing us to poverty and lining there own pockets we will be assured that they are saving the planet. This is a global problem and it may may little difference what we do now as our fate is more in the hands of the developing world. Having raped the planet ourselves it will be difficult to deny them the same rights.

I suspect you'll find that although we may not shout about it or wish to be a 'brigade' there are many more people than you imagine trying to make a difference. I have spent 6 years clearing 300 sqyds of couch and bindweed- the hard way. I have 98% success unfortunately the other 2% are in the raspberries. 1/2 of which I managed to kill digging about last year. And a bit in the end of the asparagus beds. I have no intention of letting my investment choke. So, for the first time, I shall grow it up a stick, put it in a bag and spray it with glyphosate. This does not mean I wish to live next to a chemical plant or support corporations, consumerism or pollution. I am only trying to feed my family.

[SarzWix]

Hi

Can I join, it seems it would be a very small group.

My dislike of chemicals is not just what they do to the wildlife.
But my question is to all you people who use these chemicals, would you be happy to have a chemical plant that produce weed killers on your street?

Whatever we do people make mistakes, so wether its chemicals for weedkillers or washing powder, if you use them, dont be a nimby.

Tigerella

In my book, this counts as preaching From what I have gathered, most people on this forum use chemicals as a last resort, and try to be 'green' in other areas of their lives. It comes down to personal choice and individual conscience; being called 'a nimby' probably won't influence anyone's decision one way or another??!!

[Tyto Alba]

I don't use chemicals on the lottie simply because I don't want to eat them!

But it is not the chemicals themselves which are a problem. In fact we all depend upon the chemicals industry to maintain our lifestyles.....otherwise we'd be living in the stone age. No, the problem is what we do with these chemicals. We don't want to be dumping them in the rivers etc. It is possible to keep the environment clean, just a bit more expensive.

[pigletwillie]

Everybody on this forum uses chemicals in some form or other. You keyboard is plastic which is made from petrochemicals, your monitor is plastic and full of heavy metals and that is just so you can see what I have written.

Do you use paper, 99% is bleached to make it white, your furniture is fire retardant by law and that involves lots of nasty chemicals.

Those jars you use to put home made jam in, look inside the lid, yes it a plastic layer to prevent corrosion.

And then there is the car, bus, or train!!!!

Unless you live in a cave and have a stone to sit on whilst wearing hemp knickers you are a chemical user.

We can all help to reduce this use even by doing something as simple as using a "bag for life" at the supermarket. All of which ofsets against our deliberate use of chemicals, in whatever form and all of us I am sure, keep that use down to a minimum if we can.

[nick the grief]

.........Unless you live in a cave and have a stone to sit on whilst wearing hemp knickers you are a chemical user.......

Have you been following me Piglet

I'm pragmatic about things. I don't resort to chemicals as a 1st line of defence but there are some things I will do. Roundup is one that I will use, I don't have the spare time in my life at the moment to do things "properly" but I haven't had to resort to it for a couple of years now so that helps.

I do use a spray on my Chrysanths to control White Rust as there is nothing else you can do but it's based on Rapeseed so is a halfway house.

Most people will take on an allotment and claim they are organic, but it can take several years for the residues of other folks handy work to disappear from the soil I think the minimum for the Soil Association is 7 years.

[Paulottie]

Most people will take on an allotment and claim they are organic,

Its been six years since my last confession....

I don't think Derris and bordeaux mixture count... do they?... I've used them one or twice, but I've failed at the slug pellet hurdle before anyway...both bird freindly and metlhydryde(whatever sp.) I'm deeply sorry and I am self-flagellating nightly with a pea stick. I shall also now be wearing PW style scatchy cannabis pants

Your not supposed to sell the allotment produce- so does it matter what the soil association say? all aboard the organic gravy train!! I'm sure by now my veg and soil have very little chemical in them-probably less than a glass of tap water or a lung full of urban air but I do have an irrational fear of being called "organic"

[Flummery]

I think it's all about balance. Many people's health depends on a cocktail of chemicals they are prescribed and have to take daily. I wouldn't want to tell anyone what to do but I like to leave a few 'pests' for the wildlife to eat. As long as things don't get wildly out of balance I can live with this. I'm sure a slug's mother loves it but I don't so I use pellets but I use them under netting to keep the birds out. Where I can't get at roots (the nettles which infest the roots of my cherry tree) I use roundup. I don't call myself organic but I know when I eat my produce I'm not eating huge quantities of pesticides and growth hormones. That suits me fine.

Flum