my own Countdown

[Aberdeenplotter]

Cheers matey.

It's still all there to argue for

[snohare]

I agree with your core argument Frank, I almost posted to say, "Well done, you've cracked it" when you said that they had admitted the unfair legislation thing. But there is of course that old chestnut beloved of newspapers and public opinion - anyone's opinion - when an unpopular decision is arrived at: "Won/lost on a technicality". Your core argument may be correct; what you now need to do (in my utterly unqualified opinion !) is marshal all your guns against whatever technicalities the opposition may use to win on a minor point, e.g. the objections the sheriff was making. Think of it rather as, it's not enough to have the winning carrot/tattie/shallot on the plate: you need to have a whole plateful of identical standard winners. Any imperfections and you may lose a vital point, in which instance the procedural legislation may say all other points are moot, to win on this point means...
Law...if it was that simple, everyone would be doing it, and nobody would get paid well for it, eh ! (Where's the disgusted eye-rolling emoticon when you need it ?)

[veggiechicken]

Since I can follow your logic AP and agree with you, then I'm darn sure the Sheriff should be able to.

[Aberdeenplotter]

Kenny, The Sheriffs comments have given me the key that has allowed me at long last to understand totally what the law means and the effect it has on a local authorities powers. As I mentioned above, a local authority has the power to grant leases of land. In the normal case that would mean a Council would have to enter into negotiations with each and every allotment holder about every term in every contract and on every occasion there was to be a review of rent etc. There are over 400 plots in Aberdeen so as you can imagine, there would be a huge amount of work involved. To avoid that volume of work, up here, local authorities may instead make regulations which are binding on all allotment holders but if they do, the regulations have to be confirmed at government level after publication and full public consultation.


I was able to demonstrate that Aberdeen Council have made regulations. Their plots are administered using Conditions of let letters. The word condition is synonymous with the word rule. One of the Conditions even contains the words "and this rule". So if the local authority accepts that one of its conditions are rules, all the conditions are rules. The Conditions of let letters may equally have been entitled Rules of let letters. A regulation is defined as a rule made and maintained by an authority. The rules were made by our council which is the local authority for this area. The rules are regulations. Absolutely undeniably regulations.

Our legislations says that if regulations are made and not confirmed at government level they shall be of no force.

That remains at the core of my defence.

[snohare]

Frank, whether he intended to or not, that Sheriff has practically held your hand and told you what points in law you must address next - forewarned is forearmed, he just prevented you from being ambushed by doing all the research you maybe wouldn't have a clue about. And if his comments are comprehensive enough, your comeback may quash all chances of further (and more costly) appeal by the council.
Given the first finding regarding unfair legislation, the council are now fighting with one arm tied behind their back, while you have taken a knife to the fistfight.
Keep at it. I don't see me applying for a refund even if you win, but the principle is worth fighting for !

[Feral007]

Well that sucks! Although since you're dealing with council probably not surprising. Funny how you can go from one area to another, even one country to another, and yet the council seems the same!

[julesapple]

It is good, isn't it? I was taught it years ago....in Glasgow, along with some Burns. Although I don't have a Scots accent, I can read both out correctly. Ms Murchie coached us all severely.

[Aberdeenplotter]

You ok, AP? Chin up ye feisty wee loon....!

"GIN I was God, sittin' up there abeen,
Weariet nae doot noo a' my darg was deen,
Deaved wi' the harps an' hymns oonendin' ringin',
Tired o' the flockin' angels hairse wi' singin',
To some clood-edge I'd daunder furth an', feth,
Look ower an' watch hoo things were gyaun aneth.
Syne, gin I saw hoo men I'd made mysel'
Had startit in to pooshan, sheet an' fell,
To reive an' rape, an' fairly mak' a hell
O' my braw birlin' Earth,--a hale week's wark--
I'd cast my coat again, rowe up my sark,
An' or they'd time to lench a second ark,
Tak' back my word an' sen' anither spate,
Droon oot the hale hypothec, dicht the sklate,
Own my mistak', an, aince I cleared the brod,
Start a'thing ower again, gin I was God."

Love it Jules

[Aberdeenplotter]

I don't think it is as bad. the problem was the Sheriff thought that if a local authority had no authority without making regulations, to interpret the Council's regulations as being regulations that needed to be confirmed by the Scottish Ministers to give them illegal effect would lead to an absurd result. That would have meant they didn't have the authority to grant my lease in the first place and my lease would be null and void. After some research, I have now established A local authority has the power to grant leases of land under another act. That helps a lot and will allow me to appeal once the written judgement comes to hand.

[Tripmeup]

Ah ,just wondering how u got on...keep the head up...
Might not be as bad as you think..fingers crossed for you..

[VirginVegGrower]

Sorry to hear today's news AP. There are some lovely "I'm alright Jack" folk out there I'm afraid. Maybe some publicizing of the council's decision could garner support for you and act as leverage. It's a sad day

[julesapple]

You ok, AP? Chin up ye feisty wee loon....!

"GIN I was God, sittin' up there abeen,
Weariet nae doot noo a' my darg was deen,
Deaved wi' the harps an' hymns oonendin' ringin',
Tired o' the flockin' angels hairse wi' singin',
To some clood-edge I'd daunder furth an', feth,
Look ower an' watch hoo things were gyaun aneth.
Syne, gin I saw hoo men I'd made mysel'
Had startit in to pooshan, sheet an' fell,
To reive an' rape, an' fairly mak' a hell
O' my braw birlin' Earth,--a hale week's wark--
I'd cast my coat again, rowe up my sark,
An' or they'd time to lench a second ark,
Tak' back my word an' sen' anither spate,
Droon oot the hale hypothec, dicht the sklate,
Own my mistak', an, aince I cleared the brod,
Start a'thing ower again, gin I was God."

[cardiffsteve]

Shall I shoot him now then AP?

But dont shoot the deputy.

[cardiffsteve]

Keep the faith AP.
I'm sure the sheriff will see that you are right.
Were all behind you 100%

[Florence Fennel]

Right guys, things went really really badly but still clinging on by the fingernails. As expected, Sheriff has taken papers away to to consider but he was shooting down all my arguments even that based on the Harwood case. Now awaiting the judgement. I am not optomistic.

Shall I shoot him now then AP?