Well, blow me!

[johnty greentoes]

I Think Education Went Down The Drain When They Abolished The Cane And Slipper As All Respect For The Schooling System Is Now Lost.
I Had My Teenage Daughter's Parent Evening Last Thursday And Got Talking To The Music Teacher And He Said She Was Doing Fine. Also He Was On About The Fact They Lost The First Term To A Group Of Kids Who Missed Behaved And Had To Send The Good Kids To A Diffrent Room To Get On With There Work , What Happened To Sending The Bad People To The Headmaster ?
The 3r's Seam To Be A Thing Of The Past , They Don't Now There Times Table Or Even What A Fortnight Is , And It Not Just My Kids I Asked There Friends As Well!
This One I Don't Blame The Teachers As They Are Told What To Teach But On The System They Have To Do There Job In , What Other Job Would Expect You To Do It Well With One Arm Tide Behind Your Back.
No Wonder The Bosses Are Looking To The Older Generation For There New Work Force , They Don't Have Strings Of A+ But They Have Something Much More Valuable ( Life Experiance )

And Yes English Was My Worst Subject!

Which arse are you talking out of at the moment?

The fact is that Primary Education is all about the 3Rs - try reading a newspaper and you would know.

Is it really up to teachers to teach kids what a fortnight is. Surely you use such words in conversation at home? Do you have any responsibility for your children's education, or are you one of those - I pay my taxes so the State can babysit my kids types.

Grow up.

[johnty greentoes]

I Agree There Was Teachers In The Past Who Would Hit A Pupil On A Regular Basis ( Because It Was Good For Them ? ) And I'm Glad That Part Of Teaching Has Gone For Good , But We Have Gone To Far The Other Way .
When I Was At The Comprehensive Your Parants Had To Sign A Form To Say You Could Receive The Cane And All Parents But One Did , And Guess Who Was The Badiest Kid In School.
I'm Not Saying Caning Is The Beall And Endall And I Hope The Headteachers Never Have To Use It Again So Keeping It Locked Away In A Cupboard But If They Use It Once On A Pupil In Front Of The Whole School ! Then Teachers Will Get On With There Jobs A Whole Lot Easier Because No One Will Dare Speak Out Of Turn.

Sure - that's what education is meant to do to people... turn them into people who don't speak out of turn.

1930s Germany here we come - don't dare question of have an opinion shut up and hold a gun.

[Snadger]

I cannot, in all truth, say that it is just modern teaching methods etc that are wrong. After all, I am 57 years old (yes you may say I don't look it!!!), and I can remember my first school, where I was, for a while, the only left handed child in the school! I have to say, I went through HELL, because the school refused to pander to my 'strangeness'. I had sore knuckles for weeks, because they used to crack them with a wooden rule every time I tried to write with my left, and I actually spent part of the time with my left arm tied (!!!!!!) so I couldn't use it. However, I won through, and am still, proudly, left handed. discipline gone mad, eh. Having said that, there was a teacher there, a large lady, who operated with a rod of iron, but was extremely fair, and very kind. Just woe betide anyone who broke the rules, but she was lovely.

I'm right handed and I also got my knuckles rapped with a ruler, and what for???, putting loops on my jays and effs! Left me scarred for life...in fact I beat the crap out of the teachers son because of those loops! Got the cane for that!
Found out later the poor woman was an alchoholic, wondered why she always had her desk lid up with glugging noises ensuing!

[Alison]

Hopefully everybody's calmed down now! Now, a few points as I see it,

1 - Kid's education is very important and that at least a decent percentage of schools / teachers are doing a pretty good job, most of the time. All schools have bad teachers (the same as all workplaces have poor staff) and even the good ones have bad days, that's life and there's no point moaning about it as that will only have a negative effect on your kids.

2 - For school to be an effective learning experience, teacher's need to earn the respect of their teachers, this is not a right and does not mean that kids should not be able to question things. However, the teacher also needs to have the means and support to gain this trust.

3 - Paperwork and procedures get in the way of most people's day to day life and stop us doing what we want to do, when we want to do it!

4 - Bullying is bad, whether that be by the kids or the teachers.

5 - Corporal punishment should never be the start point in any relationship, and yes, pupils have a relationship with their teachers.

6 - And most importantly, education is extremely important and is a joint effort between parents and teachers. Blanket critising those who aim to provide it won't help in the slightest.

And breathe................ feel better for that now, think I'll go and have a cuppa!

[pigletwillie]

I for once agree with Johnty, there is too much reliance on teachers to educate children in the most basic of tasks. By the time kids go to school surely its not too much to expect them to know how to use a knife and fork, to be able to tie shoelaces, and have a basic understanding of reading and the alphabet.

In the 1970s we were called the sick man of Europe, today David Cameron called us the sick family of Europe. Everything, education, discipline, diet, morals, outlook and a host of other things are directly influenced by what happens in the home and the grounding we get there. They are not the responsibility of teachers but of parents.

[beefy]

Agree 100% with you Alison especially on point 6 .Its not good enough to berate the teacher if you have no idea what stage your child is at .Parents must be involved in the education of their children and not view the school as some sort of childcare for the kids.

[Alison]

Agree 100% with you Alison especially on point 6 .Its not good enough to berate the teacher if you have no idea what stage your child is at .Parents must be involved in the education of their children and not view the school as some sort of childcare for the kids.

Yes but it wasn't meant to be a dig at parents either, again there's many doing a great job in very difficult circumstances. Any kid with good backup and guidance at home and at school has a major advantage of those less fortunate.

[Two_Sheds]

Yes English Was My Worst Subject!

Carl, bless I forgive your spelling, but please stop writing in Capitals, It Is Really Hard To Read !

[Two_Sheds]

Lesley, you're such a dominatrix!
I think a mass debate of this kind is good for them

[kirsty b]

Having read all the posts, I feel the need to add my two pennorth in support for my daughter's school and all the teachers in it. They are great. I attend all parents eveings, class assemblies and recently I was invited in to talk about my job when the children had a Health Week. I found the children polite, well behaved and inquisitive (if inclined to go off on tangents as six year olds do!)
I feel I have an obligation as a parent to help/assist with my daughters education, be it helping to explain things when she asks questions, listening to her read, etc and by teaching her basic good behaviour before she went to school/nursery.
In doing this I'm following my Dads example. He did all this with me and my sister, and if we got in trouble at school, we were in trouble with the old man too!

Teachers do a difficult job and are bound by increasing amounts of paperwork, rules, guidelines etc and parents defending their little angels even if their behaviour is awful.

As for bad teachers, it only takes a minority to give the majority a bad name.

[bubblewrap]

Carl, bless I forgive your spelling, but please stop writing in Capitals, It Is Really Hard To Read !

I always think if people type in capitals they are SHOUTING at me.

[Two_Sheds]

By the time kids go to school ... able to tie shoelaces...a basic understanding of reading and the alphabet.They are not the responsibility of teachers but of parents.

yep, with you there. We have 7/8 year olds who can't do shoelaces, can't spell even simple words (I know a lot of you have spelling ishyoos, but you need to be able to make yourself understood...how is that possible if you don't know the difference between 'where' and 'wear', 'there' and 'their' ? How can you search for something on the Internet if you can't spell it?), can't add up in tens, don't know what a cabbage is, think that chocolate spread is a fruit.*

And this is the top set I'm talking about.

* we recently had Healthy Snack Week. Many of the children had never eaten any fruit. I mean any. Everything they ate came in a plastic wrapper. One girl told me "you can't eat cabbage leaves" - she thought it was just food for pet rabbits.

Is all this the fault of teachers?
Do you despair for the next generation?

[smallblueplanet]

... One girl told me "you can't eat cabbage leaves" - she thought it was just food for pet rabbits.

Is all this the fault of teachers?
Do you despair for the next generation?

LOL! See parents do teach their kids things, I bet the parents think that milk comes from Tescos in bottles - cows ?

[madderbat]

One of todays problems? Parents expect too much of teachers in their childrens early years
How can teachers be expected to teach when the children have not been taught to behave by their parents?
Parents MUST learn that discipline begins at home.
Love Bubblewrap

[Two_Sheds]

How can teachers be expected to teach when the children have not been taught to behave by their parents? Parents MUST learn that discipline begins at home.

With you there MB. So many of our children don't know how they should behave, because they are allowed to do as they please at home.
I suspect that this may be down to (massive over-simplification coming up...) 'broken' homes. I mean, perhaps mum doesn't live with dad, so they compete with each other over who can be nicest to junior, doing everything for him/her, not making them do horrible chores like housework or homework. Junior, being a natural manipulator (hey, it's survival of the fittest/most adaptable) plays one off against the other. S/he also learns to play teacher off against parent. Hence, parent thinks teacher is evil and wrong, so tells junior not to listen to teacher (as I said earlier, many parents don't even bother turning up to parents evening). Hence, classroom disruption.
Teacher gives all attention & energy to the most disruptive pupils (aka crowd control) and less time & attention to those pupils who are well-behaved and eager to learn
In my class of 24, there are 21 who are a pleasure to teach, and 3 who are "behaviourally challenged" and end up disrupting each and every lesson. We do what we can for all of them, but the parents in all 3 cases don't want to know. They will not accept suggestions or offers of help, seeing it as criticism, interference and insulting. They will not get over their own self-importance to improve their child's abilities.

(Gosh, I'm exhausted now...going for a lie down)