The Liberal Democrats. Pfft!

[PAULW]

And with regards to council housing - its no wonder why labour struggled to build, with so many modern regulations and lack of space these days.

New liebour have introduced more laws in the last thirteen year than had been introduced in the previous thousand years, if we hadn't had an open door policy on immigration there may be a lot more Fields left in this country

[lindyloo]

sorry, we are all entitled to our opinions, but it can't be blamed all on labour. the country was in a mess, when they came in, and i agree that they have made mistakes, mostly, i think because they adopted policies which weren't thier own. they went over to big businaess rather than the worker. which is why i think the silent majority needs to start speaking up for thier rights, and why radical new thinking needs to be applied, not willy nilly cuts that have been badly thought through, and are not actually sustainable.

by the way, our children are going to be paying for the coalitions policies much sooner than when they grow up and work till they retire. such as when they are huddled, hungry and mal- nourished on a street corner with thier parents, who have lost thier jobs, through no fault of thier own, then thier house, and jobseekers has ran out of time and been reduced- even though there arent any jobs?? oh- i forgot the step of sending the workseeker to an new area- therby breaking up the family structure, and putting a strain on another area. it just wont work- it is just big talking shuffling facts and figures, which is going to end in many many tears. and to me- it seems almost thuggish, to get into power and make huge changes without proper planning and consideration. change for change sake is not always a good plan, and these people are playing withpeoples lives.

just want to add that i agree with comments about housing assc. when i say affordable housing i mean housing that people can afford on the wages paid to the unskilled worker, not housing that has rent which needs to be topped up by a rent rebate. i mean the gov. pays to build the houses, cheaply and basically- even prefabs, and then collects the rents for its own coffers. just as it was before conservative maggs, sold it all off. get rid of the housing asc. we cant afford them anyway, samne as so many other independant agencies which have been created- this is where so much money has been wasted.

i too want to say that i am not being argumentative towards anyone, and respect everyone's right to thier personal opinions. sometimes we learn a lot from an opposing opinion, which is a good thing.

[buzzingtalk]

don't worry, big society will look after you

what a load of cod!

[PAULW]

There are people in council housing that have been there for fifty odd years there are other with four cars on the drive, houses that look like something out of homes and gardens who also have four weeks abroad on holiday every year while still paying �40 a week rent, what is the difference between these people and those who have bought their council house.

[zazen999]

What's needed here is a little How to Calm Down - wikiHow

[buzzingtalk]

dishonesty, thats what. regardless of money, there will always be liars and cheats. ive seen people like that on my old council estate, where none of us learnt to drive let alone owned a car, while someone round the corner had a massive humvee with all the trimmings. Probably drug dealers, and they dissapeared quickly, probably becuase someone had a word with the council.

But there is no difference to someone on mega bucks avoiding tax, or politicians in a much better position to do well who fiddle income and expenditure. its just the nature of the world we live in, there will always be dishonest people whereever you go.

[lindyloo]

zazan- i don't think we are getting too excitable? in reply to last couple of posts, i dont think it is necasarily indictive of wrongful behavior to live in a council house and have four cars, so i wouldn't judge by that standard- it could just be man, wife and 2 teenagers? and its human nature to live life to the best you can in the circumstances, so i cant really say the family are at fault, by choosing to live in a house at 40 pounds a week rent- they are definately very lucky, but so were all of the previous tenants who were lucky enough to be living in a council house when they were all sold off cheaply, so i wont judge. what is perhaps wrong is that the council houses were sold off too cheaply to begin with, and money form the sale, not being invested in new housing. what is wrong is that the council should not have upped the rent in line with other rents in the area, and wages should have been taken into effect- maybe it is that the other rents are too high for sustainable living?? i tend to think that our leaders and big business people, have ably demonstrated that if they were at the bottom of the pile,they would be statistically equal with poorer people now, ie. they would be doing every thing they could do, to get as many perks, cheap housing, and out and out lying and cheating, earning a bit on the side (ie thier favours for cash scandals) so i personally like to think that 95% of us are basically decent, kind, & honest, and the rest of us, for whatever reason are not- it human failing regardless of status. and that is why i think it all has to be changed and simplified, but not bulldozed into oblivion by coming down too heavy on those at the lower end of the scale. i like to think 'walk a mile in his shoes', so i dont like the current trend of journalists and polititions, of encouraging people to be envious of thier nieghbors- because as they say- we are in it together! ( hmm, but lets not mention who got us into it- all the leaders- whichever party of politicals stand or business- its all about money, and you can rest assured they aren't going to suffer.

[buzzingtalk]

where are these council houses for �40 a week! I've never heard of such cheap housing! Then again, I'm from London originally where the minimum wage does not sustain the price of living, unlike other places like Norwich (where I live now) where you could actually get by on minimum wage.

[Snadger]

I kinda think this thread was aimed at the Lib Dems? I wonder if the vast majority of the Lib Dems are happy with the way things have worked out? Will there be a Lib Dem party in the future?
I always thought they had more in common with Labour anyway.....til now!

[MrsC]

Well we can all blame whoever, right or wrong who knows. Maybe we should stop finding someone to blame, because it ain't one person's doing or political party etc. The only people who can make any change are the masses of people by sitting back and actually looking at the past 100 years+ not 40 years and deciding how to change. You can't pay back any debt no matter whether millions or billions, how can you pay back a debt when there is not the money in circulation to pay it back? If there is for example only �10,000 for the whole of this country how can you offer the full amount out for loan and then pay back interest above this? Think about it what is money anyway apart from a bit of printed paper. If you were trading in real terms eg - gold, there is a limit to the amount, you can't make it, therefore, the value is real. Money isn't. Look up the term promisery note and the meaning. What does the term 'promise to pay the bearer on demand' that is printed on all notes. Check it out along with the bankruptcy act!

[Two_Sheds]

gold ... you can't make it, therefore, the value is real.

You can mine more of it, and its value is whatever someone will pay for it

[Two_Sheds]

where are these council houses for �40 a week! I've never heard of such cheap housing!

A room in a shared house is about �90 a week in Norwich. Shocking

[valmarg]

They have done wonders to keep the NHS going and made good improvements in education. They also stopped the recession turning into a depression. .

As an NHS employee between 1974 and 1979, I can assure you that the Jim Callaghan administration systematically starved the NHS of funds. If Clair Rayner is going to come hack and haunt anyone for the ruination of 'her beloved NHS' it should be him. Not Maggie Thatcher, nor David Cameron. All the last labour government has done to the NHS is throw money at it. You can't solve a problem by chucking more and more money at it.

Education, education, education was bliar's mantra. All his party did was dumb down to the lowest common denominator. Children are not encouraged to better themselves. If they do they are saddled with bliar's debt.

'They also stopped the recession turning into a depression'. Whilst I think the banks deserve some of the bad press they received, the state this country is in at the moment is more down to Gordon's spending more than he was tax gathering, and borrowing, so that the interest payments were more than the tax receipts.

As a pensioner I should have to say that the Winter fuel payment is not an essential, and is probably used towards my brandy allowance. We have not bothered with a bus pass so it is not something we would miss if it was withdrawn.

valmarg

[Two_Sheds]

I was 11 when Thatcher came to power ... being turned away from A&E ... despite having multiple fractures to my elbow.

Hospitals weren't much better by 1996 when I was in for a spell. There were dirty bedpans piled up on the floor, blood and human tissue in the baths, meals were missed, chemo was mucked up etc.

That's after 17 years of Tory rule.

[MrsC]

You can mine more of it, and its value is whatever someone will pay for it

Hi Two Sheds

Yes, you're right you can mine more of it but it's real in terms of value, but it can't be printed. The currency is based on sterling silver, therefore, that is what a promisery note on a bank note is