Talk about a brown trouser moment!

[OllieMartin]

That is what I suspected, hence it is a design issue!

Yup, but I think the design issue stems from the design of the human eye!

I recommend God does a recall

[HeyWayne]

I watched an episode of Fifth Gear where they highlighted the blind spot issue with trucks and how it was important if overtaking a truck you ensure that you

a) make sure - as reasonably as possible, that he/she has seen you (ie, not sitting right up their backside and then pulling out and round)
b) don't hang about in their blind spot (toward the front of their trailer - easier to demonstrate with live footage of course).

They also showed how the problem is exacerbated for foreign drivers who sit on the opposite side of the cab and can see even less of the blind spot overtaking side.

I think if my suspicions are correct and that the driver of the Clio (I think that's what it is) has just pulled out without properly checking their mirrors then I'm sorry to say that it's probably their fault. It's unlikely the driver could have done anything even if he had seen the car.

These trucks are designed to pull loads of 40T or so. The average car weighs a little over 1.5T. Even if you factor in the friction load of the tyres - the truck driver is likely to not really notice much more than the same effect of going up hill a bit.

My opinion/theory anyway, but then I'm neither a truck driver or traffic incident investigator.

[OllieMartin]

I think if my suspicions are correct and that the driver of the Clio (I think that's what it is) has just pulled out without properly checking their mirrors then I'm sorry to say that it's probably their fault. It's unlikely the driver could have done anything even if he had seen the car.

That reminds me, the other think my independent expert said was that it was entirely possible that the car had a front-tyre blow-out, which may have caused them to swerve into the lorry. Hence, it might not have been anyone's 'fault'.

[HeyWayne]

That reminds me, the other think my independent expert said was that it was entirely possible that the car had a front-tyre blow-out, which may have caused them to swerve into the lorry. Hence, it might not have been anyone's 'fault'.

I think it it were a blow-out there would have been sparks flying all over the place from the wheel hub being dragged along the motorway at 60mph, and from memory I don't think there were any...

[organic]

HW
This is, of course, speculation but possibly not.

I'm pretty sure the car was leaning in the direction of travel (no wonder really) which may be enough to lift the offside tyres off the road, at least enough to prevent the rim from running on the road. If that's true, I can see it being possible that a blowout caused the accident but didn't result in sparks.

That said - it's pretty amazing there weren't sparks sooner - though maybe the wet road helped with that.

A car was T-Boned just a few yards from my house a while back and after the long skid before impact the car was shunted sideways with enough force to yank the tyre out of place and leave it deflated with the rim on the ground. How that's not happened in the video is beyond me.

[HeyWayne]

HW
This is, of course, speculation but possibly not.

I'm pretty sure the car was leaning in the direction of travel (no wonder really) which may be enough to lift the offside tyres off the road, at least enough to prevent the rim from running on the road. If that's true, I can see it being possible that a blowout caused the accident but didn't result in sparks.

That said - it's pretty amazing there weren't sparks sooner - though maybe the wet road helped with that.

A car was T-Boned just a few yards from my house a while back and after the long skid before impact the car was shunted sideways with enough force to yank the tyre out of place and leave it deflated with the rim on the ground. How that's not happened in the video is beyond me.

Yeah, you're probably right.

[OllieMartin]

We've turned this thread into CSI!

The evidence never lies

[organic]

Ollie - you should see the quick picture I drew up in response to a comment elsewhere - it had lines of sight and assumed positions of the driver's head to prove that the car wouldn't be visible to the driver where it was.
It took about 30 seconds but was pretty telling.

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Red shows he'd almost need to have his face against the windshield to see anything. Green shows what I think is the most likely line of sight.

CSI? Not far off it!

Well, in that they'd probably be able to zoom and enhance the image so much you'd be able to see the reflection of the driver of the car it was filmed from as reflected in the raindrops on the nearside door of the truck... but other than that... CSI!

[OllieMartin]

You're basically Gil Grissom!

[organic]

I don't have it in me to grow a beard like that though.

[beefy]

Saw something very similar about 12 years ago on the M58 into Liverpool. Car passing lorry pulled in to soon clipped back bumper on the front of the lorry . Spun round and got pushed about half a mile before the driver saw the smoke rising up past the windscreen. When I saw the smoke I realised there was something badly wrong. As noted above the sightlines are about right so once I leaned forward I saw the car - brown trouser moment for me as well. Luckily neither of us were hurt but her brand new Rover 45 with 23 miles on the clock was written off.
A 450- 600 hp lorry won't notice an extra ton and it's very easy to miss that little spot in front of the cab. While I don't have an issue with bikes on the road when they come up on the passengerside of a truck and slip in front of you at traffic lights they really do take their life in their own hands because you just can't see them.New trucks are now fitted with a mirror to show along the front of the cab to try and stop this sort of accident happening.

Moving Target Forum - Diagrams of HGV blind spots (from Nozzer) - these could save your life this is a link to a few diagrams and explanations of blindspots on trucks . Essential reading for those of you who ride push bikes. It could save a life.

A more interesting and possibly easier to understand video as well -RSA Cyclist and HGV Safety Video on Vimeo

[organic]

Handy links there, Beefy.
I've always treated HGVs with a health level of respect and more so on my bike. I usually pull away very quickly when on a pushbike - mainly to avoid the all-too-common "left hook" from the kind of drivers who insist on overtaking in order to turn left rather than waiting an extra second - but it does have the advantage of getting you well out of a truck's blind spot before they can get up to speed. If I'm not planning on a quick getaway I just leave them all the room they need.

I think a lot of people don't realise just how large some of the blind spots are.

I always liked the "If you can't see my mirrors, I can't see you" sticker on the back of some wagons. Very informative.

[dexterdoglancashire]

[QUOTE=SarzWix;633805]Isn't that a similar thing to what happened to Selfraising's daughter? Except she got spun round rather than stuck on/under the truck?QUOTE]

Not sure, but she's been here for tea tonight and is OK, it was a few months ago. The consequences dont bear thinking about.