Fuel

[pigletwillie]

Fuel duty is going up 3p in April before any other increases are added.

VAT does not go to Europe, it goes into Mr Browns money box, a chunk of it no doubt does pay our membership bill however.

[Two_Sheds]

Fuel duty is going up 3p in April before any other increases are added.

There was a lively discussion about it on the wireless yesterday. Some chap rang in to say that if fuel gets much more expensive, people will have to rethink their travel plans, and they might even have to resort to using their legs to get around for short journeys He was quite indignant about having to do that

[pigletwillie]

It is only going to get more like that which is no bad thing, but then there is the other rub of the coin, My work is 18 miles away so its going to cost me substantially more.

Worse still, prices will go up which will make inflation go up which will make interest rates go up which will make pay go up which will make prices go up and so on.

[jacob marley]

I think it is a double edged sword firstly you cut down on driving and secondly the goverment rake in more money from the hapless motorist some thing they seem rather good at...jacob

[reetnproper]

Motorists are easy targets when all is said and done, afterall a fair percentage of the workforce, live a number of miles away from their place of work and rely on their cars to get there, and if other bus routes are like the one I use to get to an from town, they don't generally fit in with clocking-on and clocking-off times .

We've already minimised the amount we use our vehicle and if more people begin to drive only as necessary (which happened last time the fuel prices rose to such high levels) and not for 'pleasure', then you have to wonder where next the tax hammer will fall.

Fuel duty accounts for a huge percentage of the Governments income and, right now, every penny is needed (apparently). Tax revenue from smokers is already reducing at a significant rate each year, as the cost (NOT the stop smoking campaigns) has forced many to quit (my OH included thank goodness).

The treasury is going to have to make up the deficit somehow and I dread to think where it'll strike next.

Regards
Reet
x

[Nicos]

Most garages here are charging 1.44E per litre- about �1.30 for unleaded.
(I did manage to top up at 1.33 at a huge hyperstore though)

Not so long ago petrol was so much cheaper here than in the UK!

M2R...are you talking about fuel for the central heating or cars??

[organic]

Nicos - the last time I was on a road trip in France - I planned it so I was pretty much running on vapours as I rolled off the boat in Calais - just so I could have a full tank of the cheaper fuel... I then filled up again in Calais so I'd have a full tank of the cheaper fuel over this side too. It saved a good few quid too.


The really fun part about all this? It would be really... really easy to straighten all this nonsense out.

In 2007 the government was spending �175 billion on QUANGOs alone. Income tax raised �153 billion.
Cut the cost of government spending on government itself by getting rid of the QUANGOs and instantly there'd be enough money saved to abolish income tax and have a �22 billion surplus!

Even assuming that wasn't going to happen, just going back to the 2002 level of government spending (which was an astronomical �420 billion) the saving against the 2007 cost could abolish income tax and leave a �17 billion surplus.

I've not got time to dig out the more recent prices - but hands up anyone who thinks the cost of government has dropped since 2007? Nobody? Ah well.

Unemployment? Turn the UK into a tax haven and every major business on the planet will be setting up over here - they'll need workers from somewhere.

If things weren't getting so expensive (price increase cycles as described by pigletwillie) and so tough for those on low incomes - it would almost... almost be funny.

[beefy]

Fuel at the local ASDA which I pass on the way home from work is this evening �1.12 / litre - petrol and diesel.Thats the cheapest , smaller independant garages are as high as �1.17 .
Considering the price of fuel with all the taxes removed from it is around �0.41/ litre and the price of crude oil has dropped since the highs a couple of years ago can anyone explain WHY prices are so high?
Why are we all not on strike until the government stops this fuel tax escalator. I'm not saying they shouldn't collect tax but when you pay nearly twice as much tax compared to the cost of producing the stuff in the first place something somewhere is very wrong .

[matthew2riches]

M2R...are you talking about fuel for the central heating or cars??

Diesel for the van and car...

[organic]

Why are we all not on strike until the government stops this fuel tax escalator.

We're not French enough for that. We just have a bit of a moan and lump it - it's the British way. Wouldn't want to cause a fuss.

[Paul Wagland]

I might be very much in the minority, and far from clued-up on the intricacies of taxation, but I have to say I'm in favour of high tax on petrol. Just as with cigarettes, the rising cost forces people to give up bad habits. Most of us (myself included) drive more than strictly necessary, and it's very bad for the environment, our local societies / neighbourhoods and our physical and mental health.

The thing, in my view, that the government has got so wrong is that it's not spending enough of the money on public transport / safe walking routes / cycle lanes etc. People don't currently have any incentive to switch.

[matthew2riches]

I might be very much in the minority, and far from clued-up on the intricacies of taxation, but I have to say I'm in favour of high tax on petrol. Just as with cigarettes, the rising cost forces people to give up bad habits. Most of us (myself included) drive more than strictly necessary, and it's very bad for the environment, our local societies / neighbourhoods and our physical and mental health.

The thing, in my view, that the government has got so wrong is that it's not spending enough of the money on public transport / safe walking routes / cycle lanes etc. People don't currently have any incentive to switch.

When you use fuel for work, it is absolutly essential to have decent price fuel. People are asking me why I've put my prices up this week.... all because of Gormless Brown is my answer

[organic]

Paul - the problem with trying to tax the poor off the roads is that it's completely backwards (not to forget completely immoral - leaving private transport affordable only bby the wealthy is an appaling way to do it).

Making roads impossible to use is not the answer when, as you rightly pointed out, there's no real alternative for a lot of things.

I used to ride my bike every day - but after some "I nearly died today" incidents involving cars and vans - some of which actually tried to hit me - I gave up.
Bikes are an unrealistic option for all but the most determined and streetwise riders.

Busses, trams and trains are typically unreliable, overpriced and impractical.
You can't get a bike on any but a train and then the whole train can usually carry about 4 or 5. You can't carry bags of compost, seed potatoes, manure, chicken wire and the rest on a bus, tram or train (even if you could get the stuff onto it) - ditto a weekly shop for a family of 4 or 5.
There's always the well designed cargo bikes like Christiania make (among other great companies) but they are impractical for similar reasons as listed above - too dangerous to be a cyclist for most people to consider doing it.

All that increasing petrol prices achieves is hurting people who really have no choice.

Oh and let's not forget those who don't live on a major route in a major metropolitan area. Friends of mine who very much live "In Manchester" can't get a bus home after 7pm and can't get a train after about 8. Useful eh?
Then there's the rural types for whom public transport is a joke that gets told about 3 times a day on a busy route.


The two intricacies of taxation anyone needs to be clued up on are just these two.
Increasing the tax just prices out the poor... those who have the most to lose by having their transport choices limited.
Increasing the tax when nobody really has a viable alternative of an acceptable standard is unjustifiable.

[organic]

Just for fun - here's the journey to my allotment.
By bus the quickest route is as follows...
20 minute walk: 7 minute bus ride: 10 minute walk.
Cost per return journey: �3.80

By car?
10 minutes each way - fuel cost per return journey �1.10


Public transport to my preferred garden centre (organic ethos, community run, reasonable prices):
5 minute walk: 20 minute bus ride: 10 minute bus ride: 12 minute walk. Cost per return journey �4.50ish.

By car? Fuel cost �1.44 return journey, 17 minutes each way.

For work (I'm invariably driving cross-town, something that's woefully uncatered for in most cities) the routes would be similarly complicated and involve carrying a ladder and the likes... but usually much further. I've actually been overly generous to the "use public transport" view in picking those two destinations.



I'd love to not need to drive. I'd much rather be out on a bike if I wasn't dicing with death every time. I walk wherever possible. But tax hikes trying to price me off the road will not work as I really have no alternative - they do nothing but hurt.

[Two_Sheds]

here's the journey to my allotment....
20 minute walk: 7 minute bus ride: 10 minute walk.
Cost per return journey: �3.80

Journey by bike: 13 mins?
Cost: free

Cycling isn't as dangerous as you'd think. Statistically, it's safer to be a cyclist than a pedestrian. Make sure you're seen, ride assertively and pick the least-scary routes. If you want to be really safe, fit a child seat and put a doll in it: drivers are very careful & considerate if there seems to be a child on board.

I've had about 4 crashes (resulting in injuries) in my life, which isn't bad seeing as I cycle 5 miles a day, 6 days a week (on main roads), and have done for 25 years.

Just for fun, see if this gives you any possibles

Try it, you might like it