Sick pay

[miffy]

Legal question for you, if you are signed off sick by a doctor for work related stress from one of your part time jobs, and be getting sick pay could you then continue to do your other part time job, is that legal?
Question posed by my sister.

[teakdesk]

No, if a doctor certifies that you are unfit for work then you are just that, unfit for work.

All work.

If you do go to work then you are showing that you are fit for work... all work.


If the "unfittness" is a physical impairment (and it is stated on the doctor's certificate) then you could argue it only applies to one job but I think that disqualifies you from claiming sick pay.

[miffy]

Cheers, will let her know she spotted someone she works with doing another job when she was signed off with work related stress. Whoops

[dogsbody]

Tell her that's fraud and she needs to speak up about it.

IF the NHS are involved the LCF (Local Counter Fraud Officer) will take it all the way to a criminal prosecution if they can.

Sure wakes someone up when out of the blue they are called for an interview under (police) caution. They surely take it seriously.

[Florence Fennel]

TD and DB are both absolutely right. If you are unfit to work certified by a doctor you are just that - unfit to work and if you do work it is fraud.

[miffy]

She was really worried about what she should do, for me it would be a no brainer but she feels sorry for this person as they cannot cope with the stresses of this particular job and the other job is a manual less stressful position. However as you all say it is fraud i will send her your replies i have already told her that i think she should tell work. Cheers guys.

[shirlthegirl43]

Sorry to butt in but this has sparked a question from me...

If you are signed off work because you have had an op and can't drive, but can still do some of your job if someone drives you there (therefore not claiming sick pay) how do you stand? Madmax will only get ssp if he stays home so is trying to do his job with me driving him.

[dogsbody]

Shirl, if signed off then they should NOT work. People are signed off for a reason and that usually means they need time to recover. It also brings into question the insurance situation, should anything happen to OH at work the employer can wash their hands. The simple answer in this case is for OH to ask GP to sign him back on, with the understanding that the employer has agreed to light duties etc. and that he won't be driving himself there. (btw if he has submitted his GP form to employer then employer should not let him work at all).

[Florence Fennel]

I have two members of staff who are fit to do some of their job so they are returning to work (signed off by GP) on phased return (using annual leave to work part time, but still get full time pay) or phased duties for a time until they can resume their usual duties. For example, someone with back problems so no excessive reaching, lifting, bending, etc. for a while.

[Snadger]

If its not affecting you directly sometimes its best just to keep your gob shut.
I don't subscribe to this dobbing someone in routine. I mean what the hell are we coming to as a nation when we start grassing people for all sorts of things.
Reminds me of pre-cold war Russia where children were dobbing in their parents to the authorities for minor misdemeanors and the poor sods were sent to the salt mines for it.

George Orwell hit it on the head with 1984!

The three wise monkeys had it right as well.......See all' hear all' and say nowt!

[shirlthegirl43]

Shirl, if signed off then they should NOT work. People are signed off for a reason and that usually means they need time to recover. It also brings into question the insurance situation, should anything happen to OH at work the employer can wash their hands. The simple answer in this case is for OH to ask GP to sign him back on, with the understanding that the employer has agreed to light duties etc. and that he won't be driving himself there. (btw if he has submitted his GP form to employer then employer should not let him work at all).

He didn't submit the form as we cannot afford for him to be off sick. I thought the whole point of being an employee was at least half pay if you were ill through no fault of your own There is no risk at work as his job mostly consists of computer work so no risk to the knee op. He can't drive (oviously) until the knee is strong enough - we understand that. Sometimes you just don't really have the option of time off sick.

[teakdesk]

Just to clarify; if a doctor "signs you off" then that does not prevent you from working if you want to. It is the person him/herself who decides whether to work or not and the doctor's certificate is merely to show that he agrees with the patient.

Statutory Sick Pay (and employer's sick pay schemes) is only payable if the employee is genuinely too sick to work. If the employee gets better sooner than the doctor thought then the certificate becomes invalid and the employee should return to work.

In this case an employee who gets better may prefer to discuss the situation with the doctor before returning to work but can return to work without doing so.

It is the employer's responsibility to ensure that a person is genuinely sick before paying statutory sick pay and they can refuse to pay it if they are not sure.

An employer has the responsibility to ensure all their employees are fit for work and may prevent someone from returning early if they do not think the employee has recovered enough.

Employees have a responsibility to employees who are temporarily disabled (eg bad back, recovering from an operation, broken bones etc.) to attempt to find them alternative work within the company.

[Hilary B]

Snadger, I would say it depends. If someone is falsely claiming sick pay, they are stealing from every taxpayer in the country, just as they are if they collect unemployment pay and do paid part-time work.
I would tell the employer who the person is working for. If the employer is honest, they won't let someone claim sick pay AND be paid for work as well.

[Jeanied]

I'm wondering if the original question is a bit more complicated - the doctor who signs someone off for work related stress for one part-time job may have agreed that the other non-stressful part time job is still OK. In which case the only sick pay being drawn down is the one from the stressful job: and the employer has some responsibilities here. Most doctors will take account of the longer term difficulties faced by someone suffering from stress and would see healthy activity as one way of rehabilitation.

[OllieMartin]

Wow interesting stuff.

I used to work in the applications department of a personal loans company. To qualify for a loan you had to prove you were in full-time work, but some people's documents (chiefly bank statements) would show 'JSA UK' payments on them (Job Seeker's Allowance).
I looked into reporting them as I detest spongers, but the whole 'releasing personal data' thing was a messy grey area and I didn't want to commit an offence myself. They got declined for the loans at the very least though.