Does not make much sense to me - WARNING - Heated Climate Debate in Progress.

[ginger ninger]

It's the same old story..no mater how far we want to bury our heads in the sand, there's always some one who'll come and kick us up the backside. I for one found "snohare's" post fascinating to read and very informative, I for one don't agree 100% with it because if we all did, the world as a whole wouldn't be in the pickle it's in now.
Back to the question in hand..no, I don't like Fireworks I have a pet that's petrified every time he hears them, its bad enough that they go off for weeks on end round here, but now there's an obsession of letting them off every new year's eve now.

But can I just say PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE check your bonfires for hedghogs, THANK'S.

[organic]

Snohare, thanks for a detailed response. I'm not going to respond to it at length due to coplete lack of time and a mountain of work to do, but here's a few points.

Wood releases carbon when burned, but no more than it has absorbed and WOULD have released when it died anyway. It is absolutely carbon neutral. Even better if you burn "used" wood.

I'm not arguing from ignorance. I was insomniac for many years and spent, on average, about 8 hours a day reading arguments on both sides of topics that I found interesting.

BOTH sides of the "climate change" debate are full of arguments that are (quite frankly) "hokum" (I'll go for that word - anyone who's into Penn and Teller will know what I mean to say here).
Arguments in favour of AGW typically fail to take into account times in the pre-industrial history where temperature was AT LEAST as warm as it is now.
They typically gloss over the fact that temperature measurement began just after a significant low in temperatures. It's like taking milk out of the fridge and then wondering why it's getting warm over time!

I won't take your comment about "ignorance" personally - but I will tell you "in the strongest possible terms" that making that comment was grossly unjust in light of the complete lack of knowledge you posess about my understanding of the issues here.

Your comment about getting bacon to the plate is all well and good if it's a settled matter that anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions are actually a problem, that is FAR from established... despite the number of "scientists" who back up the argument. (I put that in "" as many of the fields involved here really are questionable in terms of scientific method.)


Anyway... I'm not getting into a debate here. I don't have the time, but I did want to respond to your post as a courtesy and to acknowledge the time you took to compile it.


Interestingly... realclimate, owned by "Environmental Media Services" - a group that is "dedicated to expanding media coverage of critical environmental and public health issues"... rumour has it that they don't control content of the site, and I'm happy to accept that, but if it was "Exxon Mobil Environmental Services", a non-profit "dedicated to expanding media coverage of the ongoing nature of the global warming debate" there'd be cries of "foul!" even if they had no control over content.

The simple fact, though, is that a lot of scientists pulling in the same direction, "consensus" or not, does not a valid conclusion make.


I'm all for environmental issues on just about all fronts. I'm into organic food not as much for myself (though that plays a big part) as for the massive benefit it provides to the environment.
I'm all for full treatment of all sewage at all times of year in all locations... not only as a surfer (and believe me when I say it is a necessarily big issue for swimmers and surfers - the aftermath of polluted water is quite literally sickening!) but because the treatment has a demonstrable positive impact on the environment.


That organic food item was an interesting one. My kneejerk reaction when I heard it on R4 was an instant "that's not the point!!!" and deep, deep suspicion that something was afoot. Nutrition really isn't the point of organic food (though "fresh" food, maybe) - just like lower fat and salt weren't when it came under that attack a few years ago.

The Spinwatch article is very interesting though! I've never before seen anyone trying to equate GM with Organic. That really did stun me. I'm not at all surprised that they'll try that approach - claiming common-cause to a complete opposite with a similar enemy is an old trick - but I didn't really expect to see it!

Cheers again for the reply.

All the best,

a very skeptical Organic.

[HeyWayne]

Is there such a thing as "scientific fact" anymore?

By the time the carbon emissions argument is over, we won't need to worry about it.

I'm comfortable with what I emit, and how I behave.

So ner.

[ginger ninger]

I'm comfortable with what I emit, and how I behave.

So ner.

I couldn't agree more wayne.

[Eco-Chic]

I know the arguement is that our individual changes make no difference, when global companies, countries etc emit huge amounts of carbon, effluent, waste etc.

But we have to start somewhere and if we each make enough changes then the idea will spread and become part of the norm (always optimistic) You can see a similar thing with GYO, what a huge change in 5 years, a long way to go but there has been a significant change.

And even if the worries over climate change turn out to be unfounded ( and I don't think they are) then I still think it a good thing that we are forced to think and act on how our actions impact on our environment. It surely isn't right to waste the earth's resources, carve up forests, force extinctions and land waste on other countries, dump our rubbish on them etc climate change or no. And it isn't just climate change, there's water shortages and oil running out to worry about too.


Sue

I'm largely in agreement with Sue's comments.

I'm not comfortable with our dependency on overseas food and fuel either and hope we will be developing some 'home produced' alternatives as soon as possible.

[HeyWayne]

*Beavis & Butthead voice on*

Hu, huhu, hu, they changed the thread title to heated, hu, huhu hu, that's cos it's cool, hu huhu.

[SarzWix]

LOL Wayne, I thought it a good (or poor ) pun