Smoking Ban

[Snadger]

Dammit, I go for a days fishing and miss it all!

[Winged one]

Well, as I have lived with the ban for a couple of years now, it has bedded down here a bit. Which means that one must inhale deeply a few yards away from most doors, before you reach the cloud of smoke around them. And non smokers are not allowed to enjoy the beer garden or outside tables at restaurants on fine sunny days, as this is where all the smokers are puffing away (not very nice when you are trying to eat your own food even if they are finished theirs).

It's funny reading the other thread about surviving the non-regulated era and then reading this. I know that our govt (Ireland) was trying something innovative to improve the environment for workers (except prison wardens, as prisoners have retained the right to smoke). It seems that that part of it has worked. But there are large crowds hannging around doors, which can be intimidating and also create even more of a hazard for those just walking down a street (I could choose before to take my inhaler and go into a pub or not, but now I have no choice to walk down the street past them all which can often result in the puffer coming out). It also means that when going into shops (where people wouldn't have really done much smoking anyway, but now that the shopping centres are so huge, and coffee shops are banned also), I have to bring the toddler through a haze of smoke at the door. Which isn't exactly the nicest for her.

But no matter how the government chooses to make changes to issues such as this, there will be complaints, there will be arguments on both sides, and the government will be in the wrong to everyone. And it will probably cost the govt money in the long run somewhow.

[Alison]

Now, where were we, oh yes the smoking ban, please continue.

Thanks Piglet, as one of those who was offended you've brought it all back in line and that's all I wanted. Had decided last night that I was going to stop visiting this forum because of such issues. Good job we've got good mods who leave us to our own devices normally but step in when necessary - mind you, some of the other posts don't make sense now!

Well, as I have lived with the ban for a couple of years now, it has bedded down here a bit. Which means that one must inhale deeply a few yards away from most doors, before you reach the cloud of smoke around them. And non smokers are not allowed to enjoy the beer garden or outside tables at restaurants on fine sunny days, as this is where all the smokers are puffing away (not very nice when you are trying to eat your own food even if they are finished theirs).smoking anyway, but now that the shopping centres are so huge, and coffee shops are banned also), I have to bring the toddler through a haze of smoke at the door. Which isn't exactly the nicest for her.

Interesting, will have to see how it pans out here, must admit, I'm not too happy about the state of beer gardens but as the weather is getting colder I'm not going to want to be out there anyway! On a different note, apparently it's having an adverse effect on climate change as loads of pubs are buying so many patio heaters. (this comment may be made already, can't remember!)

[zebedee]

OOOOOh, a good thrashing, eh, Piglet? On bare skin, one hopes, as I am not into protected smacking!!!!

[Flummery]

Alison don't let other people make you leave. I agree that sometimes people get carried away and have to be pulled back into line but it would be a pity if good contributors like you were deterred by other people's remarks.

[andrewo]

Now, the rise or decline in heart attacks statistics in Scotland is a wee lie or spin. NHS statistics from late 2006 were collected differently, therefore there would be a rise in success rates - ha ha - and the government used this - there is no proof yet that the smoking ban has reduced heart disease, this won't be known for a long time. However, the statistics that people would run from pubs and drink at home was wrong. In Lancashire alone, pubs are not recording a loss and my local pubs seem busier than usual. Why? It is attracting back the crowd who never wanted to stink of smoke at the end of the evening, so figures are rising and a cafe culture of smokers on the roadside actually attracts people in, as it appears to be a busy pub.

Funnily enough, when opium was finally cracked down on - the papers at the time had the same response - as did the users. Sadly, nicotine is ten times worse than opium, with thousands of chemicals produced at both ends of the fag and in the factory process. Many cigarettes are produced in 3rd world countries and are not fair trade.

I am an ex-smoker - what are the benefits of not smoking? There are millions. The benefits of smoking, one. Just you.

I believe in the freedom to do anything but this only works when everyone agrees to it - but to implement that becomes a dictatorship. Individuals are reasonable and can sit here calmly and see reason, the masses are stupid, are sheep, and can manipulated and steered in anyway possible - this is called politics and the media.

[moggssue]

Not relevant to the subject of the thread but just wanted to say that I would be very sad to see Alison leave!

[Phreddy]

Alison, don't go. Opinions go best with a pinch of salt!
I didn't originally read this thread. I am a NS and couldn't be bothered with the continuing re-gergitated arguments(is that how to spell re-g....d?)
Anyway, here in BG they have tables for smokers and tables for non-smokers, generally side by side!!
Lots of NS businesses with their staff clustered around the doorway.
Fags are about 70p for 20.

Thought that you'd be interested.
BTW, couldn't find anything to take exception to, send me a PM someone to point out the offensive bits.

Phreddy

[JennieAtkinson]

I am sorry to those of you who have been offended by the posts made in this thread and I would be very upset if a general "chitchat" thread gave a regular and valuable vegetable contributor second thoughts about visiting the Forum. Alison - you are a very valuable member of the Forum and we would miss you terribly.

There is a great difficulty trying to allow free discussion and not to "over moderate" and unfortunately there is always the chance that, as happened, the discussion moved very quickly to something that caused offence.

So please folks as PW says - have your say, but keep things in check, respect each other and that way we can all enjoy the Forum.

[andrewo]

Did I miss something? Why is Alison going? That would be a shame for anyone to leave. I take any negativity with a huge pinch of salt - if anyone is abusive, don't think, 'why me?' Many people who attack on forums do so as an instant response and often regret it - similar to how we fly off in the handle in life and then apologise and on forums the tone can often be lost - then there are a few who spend their life draining the fun out of others - and don't let those people win, just ignore them and let the forum moderators take them out with their bamboo sticks.

[Geordie]

And then they expect my taxes to be spent on the NHS trying to put right the ills they have caused themselves by their own abuse of their bodies. Cos usually when they become ill, they are too ill to work.

Obviously an emotive subject so I as an ex smoker and somebody who worked for a tobacco company for a number of years can offer this. Generally people who smoke have done so for a number of years before they become ill. The retail price of a packet of cigarettes includes approximatly 85% tax. 20 cigarettes a day, seven days a week, over 20 or 30 years more than equates to any NHS bill for treatment. Multiply this by the few million people in the UK who smoke and you start to see why any Government will not impose an outright ban. Make no mistake if tobacco was banned your taxes would increase sharply to cover the lost revenue.
I'm not defending the smoking ban either way just trying to put a balanced view.

[Alison]

Thanks everybody but you don't get rid of me that easily, I was just annoyed last night and now that it's all sorted am fine - probably a bit tired yesterday so more touchy than usual.

Mind you, must threaten to leave more often, is a great boost to the ego!!!!!

[valmarg]

I was grossly offended by a posting on this site, but I am even more offended by the censorship.

were you the same piglet that posted the following comment

"These guys dont like argueing one little bit, whole threads dissapear if there is any rummblings."

valmarg

[pigletwillie]

Alas Valmarg, there is a difference between people having a difference and disagreeing on a subject, and abject racism, sexism or homophobia.

The first we will tolerate providing it does get personal, the other we will not.

I think that is Black and White enough for everybody to understand. We as moderators walk a fine line between allowing debate to flow and things getting nasty, we try to be adult about it and let things move along and as this is only the second thread that I have had to delete posts from, personally I feel we are about there. As this thread is about smoking or the lack of, if anybody wants to question my moderating, parentage et al, please pm me rather than post it here,

Now back to the smoking ban........again.

[scared55]

Is this debate? Has anyone's opinion been modified by arguments put forward?

KK