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  • Is there a difference in quality

    could any one tell me if there any difference to quality or benefit to the soil when using compost created by chemicals as opposed microbial created compost?
    it may be a struggle to reach the top, but once your over the hill your problems start.

    Member of the Nutters Club but I think I am just there to make up the numbers

  • #2
    What is compost created by chemicals?
    My Majesty made for him a garden anew in order
    to present to him vegetables and all beautiful flowers.- Offerings of Thutmose III to Amon-Ra (1500 BCE)

    Diversify & prosper


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    • #3
      I'd like to know which are full of chemicals...………………………………..so I can avoid them(says he about to read the small print on his bag of MPC in the greenhouse)

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      • #4
        What he said /|\

        Compost is by it's very nature the breakdown and consumption of organic material by ever decreasing sized living organisms. You can help encourage those organisms with beer, urine etc. but they still have to do the actual processing. It's the poop of these organisms that is essentially the digestable nutrients the plants can access (often via the fungi in the soil).

        The quality of the compost is controlled by the raw contents mixed in and the time it's had to 'mature' or break down.

        Edit:
        Those composts with added chemical fertilisers will provide selected chemical nutients but they in turn retard the normal natural process by killing or reducing the microbial processing. If you need longer term feed for plants, the typical re-potting as they grow will add fresh feed and regular mulching of the soil will promote ongoing processing of organic material.
        Last edited by ESBkevin; 24-09-2019, 08:50 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Snadger View Post
          What is compost created by chemicals?
          When using high nitrogen chemicals such as the feeding that are used by farmers which give a 25-6-6 NPK ratio their are reports pointing out that the use of chemical feeds disrupt the biological makeup of soil, so was wondering if the same applies when using chemicals to create heat for composting vegetation
          it may be a struggle to reach the top, but once your over the hill your problems start.

          Member of the Nutters Club but I think I am just there to make up the numbers

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          • #6
            Are you talking about commercial 'compost accelerators'?
            He-Pep!

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            • #7
              If commercial compost accelerators are manufactured, then yes
              it may be a struggle to reach the top, but once your over the hill your problems start.

              Member of the Nutters Club but I think I am just there to make up the numbers

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              • #8
                I've never used a compost accelerator, but as far as I can see they're just nitrogen, not sure if that's what you mean by chemicals? Nitrogen is a natural product, obviously, but I don't know how they process those products... occasionally I throw a handful of bfb or chicken manure pellets into my compost bin, I guess I'm hoping it'll make the resulting compost more nutritious?
                Don't think that's any help with your question though
                Last edited by bario1; 24-09-2019, 02:22 PM.
                He-Pep!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by rary View Post
                  When using high nitrogen chemicals such as the feeding that are used by farmers which give a 25-6-6 NPK ratio their are reports pointing out that the use of chemical feeds disrupt the biological makeup of soil, so was wondering if the same applies when using chemicals to create heat for composting vegetation
                  I think you're answering your own question, there.
                  As said above, compost doesn't just break down on it's own. It's not a chemical process, it's a biological process.
                  Compost accelerants don't create heat. They add nitrogen, which in turn feeds the bacteria and fungi which break down the plant matter. In order to work at maximum speed, they need an optimal ratio of carbon to nitrogen, and usually a compost pile ends up skewed more heavily towards carbon, so adding more nitrogen helps even the balance and thus encourage the growth of these bacteria.
                  The heat is simply created by the bacteria themselves as the grow and work, and in turn the heat encourages the bacteria to grow and eat even quicker, thus speeding up the composting process even more.
                  So how can they be harmful when they are meant specifically to encourage the growth of microorganisms?

                  That being said, although hot-bin compost is not in any way harmful and will not in any way damage your soil, it also won't inoculate it with beneficial bacteria, if that's what you are after.
                  That has nothing to do with any chemicals used, though, and everything to do with the heat it achieves during composting. The exact same is true of hot heaps that don't use accelerators.
                  A different set of microorganisms live in a cold heap compared to a hot heap. The heat of a hot heap would kill off most of the ones that prefer ambient temperature, but the hot organisms themselves don't do well at cooler temperatures, so they will reduce in number greatly, too.
                  Of course, all commercial compost, even organic stuff, is sterilized (although admittedly sometimes the sterilization is insufficient), so that's all a moot point, really.

                  Also, even homemade cold heap compost doesn't add nearly as many beneficial organisms as you might imagine it does. Those organisms are adapted to life in rotting organic matter, not soil, or even finished compost. The habitats are different. Without a fresh supply of large quantities of plant matter, most of them soon die, as there isn't sufficient food to sustain the population, and numbers go back to normal background levels.
                  All those worms in your compost, for example? They're not earthworms, they're compost worms. They live in rotting plant matter. When added to the soil, 95% or so will die within a week or two.

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                  • #10
                    I may be wrong but are we confusing the term compost with the term fertiliser which are two completely separate things?

                    It seems to me its a question of which is best., organic or inorganic or organic v artificial?

                    Its a massive question which only the user can decide on.

                    I personally favour gardening organically but I am not anal about it and have used artificial fertiliser in the past.
                    My Majesty made for him a garden anew in order
                    to present to him vegetables and all beautiful flowers.- Offerings of Thutmose III to Amon-Ra (1500 BCE)

                    Diversify & prosper


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Snadger I was wondering if by using fertiliser (as used by farmers, and which I have a fair supply of) with an NPK makeup of 25-6-6 or even a makeup 16-16-16 if adding it to a compost heap to speed up the composting process will I be harming the soil microbes when adding it to the soil
                      it may be a struggle to reach the top, but once your over the hill your problems start.

                      Member of the Nutters Club but I think I am just there to make up the numbers

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rary View Post
                        Snadger I was wondering if by using fertiliser (as used by farmers, and which I have a fair supply of) with an NPK makeup of 25-6-6 or even a makeup 16-16-16 if adding it to a compost heap to speed up the composting process will I be harming the soil microbes when adding it to the soil
                        Chemical fertilizer is not in and of itself harmful to soil microbes.
                        The reason heavy use of it reduces microbial activity in the soil is because it lacks other nutrients and it lacks organic matter, namely carbon, and carbon compounds are the basic energy source for soil microbes.
                        Basically, when you use nothing but chemical fertilizers, the soil microbes starve to death.

                        That being the case, using it as a compost accelerator ought to be fine. The compost itself is full of a mix of other nutrients and plenty of organic matter, after all.
                        Indeed, even adding it directly to the soil is perfectly fine in moderation. You just need to add mixed fertilizers and organic matter as well, and not use nothing but chemical fertilizers.
                        Think of it like a balanced diet.
                        Last edited by ameno; 24-09-2019, 04:19 PM.

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                        • #13
                          It doesn't take much to confuse me, rary, but I'm with Snadger. Why would you want to add fertiliser to your compost heap?
                          Fertiliser is for plants. Maybe add a bit when you're setting your plants out but adding it, willy-nilly to your compost heap seems pointless. Not all plants need Farmer's Fertiliser anyway.
                          I'm assuming you got it free and are trying to find a way to use it.
                          Last edited by veggiechicken; 24-09-2019, 06:13 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by veggiechicken View Post
                            It doesn't take much to confuse me, rary, but I'm with Snadger. Why would you want to add fertiliser to your compost heap?
                            Fertiliser is for plants. Maybe add a bit when you're setting your plants out but adding it, willy-nilly to your compost heap seems pontless. Not all plants need Farmer's Fertiliser anyway.
                            I'm assuming you got it free and are trying to find a way to use it.
                            The high nitrogen stuff would act as a compost accelerator, which may be desirable.
                            But otherwise, it's not really the best idea as it's just wasteful. Chemical fertilizers are water soluble, so if you add it to the compost heap then most of it is likely to get washed out by the time you actually use the compost.
                            Last edited by ameno; 24-09-2019, 04:31 PM.

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                            • #15
                              I make compost every year from all the allotment waste. I get my husband to (surreptitiously) pee in the compost bins because I (for some reason....... lost on the mists of time) believe male urine contains lots of Nitrogen and accelerates the compostmaking. This is probably some old wives tale that I have taken on board in the distant past. I also add lots of cut comfrey leaves. I can only presume that at least I am doing no harm. I wouldn't dream of adding commercial fertiliser to my compost but I have no real reason for this. It would be interesting to know how to make the best compost possible.

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