San Marzano, bush or cordon?

I was potting on some toms today and noticed that my San Marzano's were decidedly bushy, as were the Roma.

This site has a few listed that may or may not help.

http://www.thehenrysplantfarm.com/To...eppers2007.pdf

It says that they are indeterminate.

I grow mine as a cordon, and they do just fine I think that there may have been a bush type of San Marzano at some time, which has led to the confusion.

Yup, SarzWix is spot on again.

Taking gourmetseed.com as an example they sell two types of seed...

TM55 - Tomato San Marzano 3
This is the classic indeterminate vining type

TM54 - Tomato San Marzano Bush
The determinate bush form of San Marzano

whereas chilternseeds sell a semi-bush type

Tomato 'San Marzano' (Heirloom Variety) Solanaceae Red Plum Tomato - Semi-determinate variety



The classic San Marzano is a vining, cordon, indeterminate type that is open pollinated and true seed can be collected from the fruit. However there are also F1 types available from seedsofitaly.co.uk

TOMATO SAN MARZANO FOLLIA F1


Isn't gardening simple !!!!!!

It's all good fun isn't it? It does usually say on the seed packet which they are though, or at least gives an indication of the expected height so you can make a guess

Sometimes the more I learn about growing my own, the more confused I get! I grew San Marzano last year and it was a bully! It grew very fast and very bushy.

It was Mr Fothergill's seeds, named San Marzano 2 and classified as semi-determinate. The instructions were that it was a vigourous bushy plant, may need support and side shoots removing if they become too large. My plants definitely needed support and many side shoots needed to be removed - on a daily basis

I'm growing San Marzano 2 from Suttons, it gives no indication at all on the packet as to whether they are cordon or bush, as I've more than one plant I think I'll try both ways and see what happens. I was certainly interested to read this thread.

The "determinate" bit is talking about whether the plant 'stops' itself at a certain height, or not.
Determinate means it stops at a certain height, and then branches out (Bush)

Indeterminate means it doesn't stop, it just keeps growing up until you stop it (Cordon, or Vine)

Semi-determinate means it sort of stops itself heightwise, but is taller than your normal bush-type, and then proceeds to sprawl everywhere.. (Messy )

Hope that helps anyone that didn't know what it all means

Nice post SarzWix. Could I also add that as a generalisation....

Determinate varieties produce flowers and tomatoes at the end of the side shoots - if you pinch them off you'll get hardly any tomatoes. Also they tend to give the earliest tomatoes but all the season's tomatoes are produced and ripened in 4 to 6 weeks and you tend to have very few left later in the season. Side-shoots on determinate types are short. Determinates are also known as bush.

Indeterminate varieties only produce flowers and tomatoes on the one central stem (vine) and they grow tall and continue to flower and produce tomatoes for as long as the plant is alive. The energy the plant uses to grow side-shoots delays the tomatoes on the main stem ripening so they are usually pinched out. Side-shoots on indeterminate types are very long - many feet long!!

There is no actual need to remove side-shoots, apart from delaying ripening, but ventilation can be reduced if the plant keeps its side-shoots which can lead to disease so I remove them. If side-shoots are left on they can produce flowers and tomatoes but the side-shoots are often weak and can split off the plant. Indeterminate types are also known as cordon or vining types.

Semi-determinate varieties do any combination of the above.


Edit: some suppliers describe a semi-determinate as indeterminate because, although the plant is a bit of both types, they are best grown as indeterminate (cordon) but you can choose which way you want to go.

I grow Gardeners Delight (which is often called semi-determinate) as a cordon in the greenhouse but as a bush outside.

Thanks And a great explanation of the flowering habits from your good self

Whatever happened to calling things, bush tomato and normal vine tomato?
That's what we always used to call them, now it's all fancy names and whatnot. Bah humbug etc.

Many thanks everyone. It has cleared up the confusion. I have seeds from More Veg and it says no sideshoot removal required so I'll be finding out soon enough whether it's a bully or not Teak Desk, I might do something similiar just to see what happens.

Oh...now I'm definately confused. Should I not have been removing the side shoots from my San Marzano....eeek!

VERY interesting - the marzano is going great guns in the plastic greenhouse.....and all the sideshoots I've rooted from it are doing well too. I did notice it was bushy like my Urbikany but thought nothing of it.

I think I'll let a couple go and see.......

san mazarno toms please help

has anyone grown these before and are they supposed to be a cordon or a bush, compared to my shirleys they seem like they want to grow outwards more than upwards. I have searched they net and seem to get different answers everwhere I look. I got my seeds for kings. Any advice would be greatlyappreciated as i am pulling myhair out.

thanks in advance.