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  • #1

    Calling all ye beany sleuths!

    I had a pack of Inca Pea Bean from the HSL, but the pods are very different. The beans inside are proof positive the parent beans have been misbehaving with another bean.



    Any thoughts on what bean it might have been?

    From comparison with the ones going true, I am looking for a white-flowered, mottle-podded (green and bluey), black-seeded bean that an HSL seed guardian would have growing away. It's a good climber too, outperforming the true plants, though to be fair slugs hammered them. The beans have some white specks, so the black pigment hasn't totally overwhelmed the pea bean colouration.
    Attached Files
    http://mudandgluts.com - growing fruit and veg in suburbia
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  • #2
    And yes, I should really be sleeping instead of wondering about this...
    http://mudandgluts.com - growing fruit and veg in suburbia

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    • #3
      Are you sure that a stray bean hasnt germinated from last year? Did you grow this years beans in the same spot as last year? Just the one plant or several?
      Last edited by Scarlet; 22-08-2016, 07:18 AM.

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      • #4
        I had the same happen with Hutterite Soup Beans from the HSL a few years ago. All except one plant were dwarf, as they are supposed to be, with white flowers, flattish pods and yellowish beans with dark eyes. But one plant climbed, had mauve flowers, rounded pods and black seeds. The pods also developed some purple markings when ripening. I ate a few of them as green beans and they were very tasty. Definitely no stray beans from last year as I planted them in a large pot with new potting compost. I was thinking it might've been crossed with Cherokee Trail of tears which is another HSL variety. But would that give you white flowers? Probably not.
        Last edited by Zelenina; 22-08-2016, 08:54 AM. Reason: small improvement

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        • #5
          They do look like they could be a cross particularly with the lighter specks showing through the black. If the plant is from the open pollinated Inca seeds you sowed (rather than a stray seed from a previous crop) and all appeared normal with the HSL seeds, then this would be an F1 plant. Bean seed colour is maternal and differences will not be visible in the seed the year it crossed, differences will only seen in subsequent generations when they are grown.

          It's not always possible to recognise what a cross is, even when you know the possible parents, you might get a clue further down the line if you choose to grow them out. Another indicator for a cross, it seems they have hybrid vigour this season.

          It looks like it might be a fun one to grow on, the seed colour indicates it may provide lots of scope for diversity in F2 onwards, great if you a shiny bean lover
          Mostly Tomato Mania Blog

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          • #6
            Thank you.

            The seeds all looked the same when I planted them, and they were in a bed that has never had beans growing in it - not that I ever have any black-seeded climbers other than CToT or Mr Fearns and these are very different. All bar 2 varieties of my other beans are each at 12-16ft distances away, as per the RealSeeds guidance on seed saving.

            HSL are putting it down to rogues & genetic diversity in op varieties. Which it could be, it's not like they have records on each packet, but as there are 3 of about 10 plants like this, I'd have thought that was a rather high percentage for rogues.

            It IS a very pretty bean, larger than CToT, so I think I will grow them next year and see what happens - I'll have a fair few anyway.

            And yes, along with all the other things I am a fan of, shiny beans are something I am becoming really rather keen on. Him Indoors could eat (dried) beans for every meal, so gluts don't ever go to waste!
            Last edited by sparrow100; 22-08-2016, 12:52 PM.
            http://mudandgluts.com - growing fruit and veg in suburbia

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            • #7
              Rogue is possible but as you said to get three in one packet? Plus they would be hard to miss when shelling. Glad you are planning to grow some, I would have too

              Ps, I can see you are already showing symptoms of SBS (Shiny Bead Syndrome) it is a worry and have found there is no known cure. Although obtaining more shiny seeds can help relieve cravings.
              Mostly Tomato Mania Blog

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              • #8
                Am bumping this...can you spot the difference?





                I am slightly more confuddled.

                L-R are: pea bean inca (f2 rogue/cross), pea bean inca (true to the HSL seeds I got at Seedy Sunday), pea bean inca (newly arrived from VSP, saved by nellie-m in 2014 so I'm assuming darker with age) and the very similar, but fresher, monachelle di trevio (baker creek seeds)

                The cross is irrelevant really, but I'm looking forward to growing it next year.

                Do inca pea bean vary this much? I am surprised that they are so close to monachelle.
                Attached Files
                http://mudandgluts.com - growing fruit and veg in suburbia

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                • #9
                  I grew dwarf Borlotti beans from saved seed this year. All but one came true, the rogue climbed and produced black beans which looked nothing like Borlotti. The only other beans that I grew were French climbing with white seeds. Mistery!!! Will grow on the rogues next year and see what happens.
                  Gardening requires a lot of water - most of it in the form of perspiration. Lou Erickson, critic and poet

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                  • #10
                    I probably shouldn't have included the rogue.

                    My curiosity is more about the difference between the 2 inca pea beans and the similarity with the VSP incas and monachelle di trevio.
                    http://mudandgluts.com - growing fruit and veg in suburbia

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                    • #11
                      I got some from the VSP too (I can't remember who from - it could have been nellie-m) and they are darker like your 3rd row. I also assumed it was due to age, we'll compare this time next year!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by sparrow100 View Post

                        Do inca pea bean vary this much? I am surprised that they are so close to monachelle.
                        I haven't looked or done a search but are you sure that the inca pea bean/monachelle isn't the same bean but given a new name?

                        Often, suppliers give an old variety a name change....nuns belly button and soldier bush bean are the same I think.

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                        • #13
                          Yes am sure. The guys at baker creek were really excited about finding Monachelle in Italy. Am just trying to find out why my HSL inca beans are so different to the VSP ones. The VSP ones look like they should, mine look nothing like, but they came from HSL. And I'm just interested in how similar beans can look. Will be watching Monachelle beans to see how much they darken.
                          http://mudandgluts.com - growing fruit and veg in suburbia

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                          • #14
                            Ok just because I am the sad seedaholic that I am I have a pic just for you.



                            L-R on both pics Nellies seed saved 2014, mine saved 2015 and mine saved this year.
                            Nellies and this years are very similar. Last years are the odd ones out but it was quite wet towards the end of the season and I think I actually podded them before drying hence the size and lack in the depth of colour. In regards to HSL info it just says Donor Sue Harris acquired these from a street market in Inca, Majorca that sold local produce so they had to come from somewhere at some point. Will be interesting to see how the plants compare next year.

                            On a different note when I find references to nun's belly button it seems to refer to the red ones where soldier beans seems to be either red or black

                            Attached Files

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Norfolkgrey View Post

                              On a different note when I find references to nun's belly button it seems to refer to the red ones where soldier beans seems to be either red or black ]
                              Haha, to be honest Ive never seen the black ones! But I have read that some people can sometimes confuse the red ones with black because they also have a several colour shades! With some of the mahogany markings being mistaken for black (gardeners are usually old and need specs! ) you can get yellow soldier beans too. Soldier bush beans have been used since the 1800's. In France the soldier bean is called Haricot St-Esprit à Oeil Rouge' .
                              Heirloom Beans, yellow eyed beans, soldier beans, dried beans
                              Last edited by Scarlet; 10-11-2016, 05:35 PM.

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