Prospective Tenant - Organisation for people with learning difficulties

[KevinM67]

Cheers BM - I took a bit of time out to calm down.

You can realise now why the employment rates of anybody with a learning difficulty are so low, as a society we don't want to deal with them.

I mean if some employer never had adequate fencing - they might wander off and that. What an inconvenience to the neighbours that would be.

If the world had safe level paths and plenty of rest areas, then in reality it wouldn't mean jack-sheit to them, but would make us feel a lot better.

I got pulled up (quite rightly) for misquoting a post (which I apologised for) - then the same person who stressed to RE-READ whatever post, then misquoted me in another post.

Who are the 'crazy' ones ?

Anyway the OP (who seems like a good sort) will probably never get a definitive answer to their original question - but at least this thread has displayed some of the barriers that people with learning difficulties face - that the majority of us take for granted.

There is no moral high ground here on my part, or trying to justify ignorance, or such like - just reality being expressed to me from the kids and young adults (and their parents/carers) on what life's like.

Anyway . ...

[Bigmallly]

Due to no chatting allowed on the rant thread, I'd just like to say don't be disappointed Kev, you do a fine job in what can sometimes be difficult circumstances. We are part of a good forum where sometimes issues get a bit sensitive. It isn't the first time nor will it be the last where a member is left upset or disappointed. Don't lose sleep over it pal..............Tomorrow's another day.

[spamvindaloo]

Okay, not putting the post to bed just yet (sorry, VC) but my two-penneth worth is to treat the group exactly as anybody else and apply the site rules in black and white (no grey areas) regardless of whether this means they are given a plot or not but it would be fair. Do not grant them special favours, if they need raised beds or assisted access then this is for the group to provide. Most of us get nothing more than a patch of ground and have to provide our sheds and paths etc.

Provided that the group provides the required insurance and risk assessments etc then there is zero come back on the committee and they have acted fairly and in accordance with the rules.

And I don't see where the term normal comes into it. If your site rules permit a group/organisation as opposed to a single tenant then there is no normal, just a tenant.

I wouldn't want to see the group miss out on the opportunity to tend a plot but at the same time I think some people are over complicating the situation and the committee just needs to follow their own rules, 'opinions' are irrelevant.

'If' some fellow tenants (and I'm sure they will) want to help the group get their plot in order then that is down to them, not the committee.

[KevinM67]

Brilliant post BM (post 50)

[veggiechicken]

I agree, BM.
Let's put this thread to bed for the night and hope that the OP comes along soon with some hard facts.

Night Night!!

[KevinM67]

Oh this really is getting tedious, read & think about posts BEFORE replying, as I see it in the above post ...

alldiggin said .... "I know some people with learning difficulties that also have physical handicaps that come as part of their condition.

KevinM67 said ... "the vast vast vast majority of people with any sort of learning difficulty have no discernable disability"

Basically you are saying the same thing. but using different words

I meant to say no 'physical' disability; I'm using my phone at the moment, which causes me a bit of disablement. - I'm sorry if my reply came across as TEDIOUS.

But hey, cut a bit out of my post and nevermind the context.

Poor response to be fair.

Edit to add - I've re-read my original post and I had stated 'physical' disability - weird you left that word out BB because it makes a whole lot of difference, and was sort of important to the point I was making.
This is obviously a taboo subject that certain mods don't want discussed - so I'll leave it there.

[Bigmallly]

I think really we need the OP to come back with details of the group. As she has already said, they currently share a plot so are obviously capable of maintaining their own but clarity is needed rather than just a guessing game.

[bearded bloke]

Oh this really is getting tedious, read & think about posts BEFORE replying, as I see it in the above post ...

alldiggin said .... "I know some people with learning difficulties that also have physical handicaps that come as part of their condition.

KevinM67 said ... "the vast vast vast majority of people with any sort of learning difficulty have no discernable disability"

Basically you are saying the same thing. but using different words

[KevinM67]

I know some people with learning difficulties that also have physical handicaps that come as part of their condition. They would struggle physically to dig but could manage light work on raised beds. Another lad I know loves to garden but again has physically different needs.

Untended plots are one of the big problems facing allotment sites all over the country. Often the weather gets blamed, but when there's only one or two plots untended then it's not that.
If the person who will be coming all the time with the group is really keen then that's fine, but if it's just a flash idea then it's not going to last. The big responsibility is that someone has to be responsible for the plot - you can't measure how keen someone is instantly. You can see how keen they appear to be.

A group contacted us about wanting a plot but it turned out after a few months of them not responding to invites to visit that they actually wanted something they could visit every month. You can't tend an allotment properly in an hour a month.
Maybe this group is more dedicated and actually wants an allotment.

If this group is next on the waiting list then the sanctity of the list needs to be followed, but with an individual perhaps taking on the responsibility for the group's plot.

Right - I'm quoting this post in full so there is no accusation of taking anything out of context.

Alldigging - I don't want to come across as 'picking on you', being disrespectful to you and/or being a total pumpkin in general.

However, the vast vast vast majority of people with any sort of learning difficulty have no discernable physical disability that would make them need specific requirements such as raised beds, level stable paths and/or easily reachable rest areas.

If we were using that criteria for denying people allotments, then a good chunk of the people on here (including myself) would be denied one.

Again, would you deny someone who didn't have a learning disability but had a false leg a plot ?

Regarding untended plots - I stated in a previous post that any organisation should abide with the rules, responsibilities and obligations of the Allotment Association. This goes for everybody - organisation/individual alike. What has that got to do with this post, I don't know, but we'll leave that there.
As for the weather - you'll never believe it but people with learning difficulties react just like us 'normal' folks - crazy I know !!!

Regarding taking responsibility - again, what is the problem, any Association would demand that of any organisation, just like what is made clear to any individual taking on a plot.

As VC correctly pointed out - we don't know the terms of agreement the OPS Association have with the farmer, or the constitution/articles of their particular Association, so I'll leave it there.

[Bigmallly]

I have refrained from posting on this thread as I am confused & bemused by some of the comments I have read. I have had personal dealings with teenagers with learning difficulties & found them to be the most loyal, trustworthy, sincere, polite, hard working individuals I have met. Yes, some can be behaviourally challenging but can't we all? I mentioned supervision & ratio in my earlier post and that was for their own safety & nothing to do with other plot holders. If I had a plot & such a group was to be allowed a plot, I would be the 1st person to give assistance, support & advice. As regards to toileting, I just find that a joke as we are all human beings and all need toilet facilities at some point so that's a no brainer for me. There are too may misconceptions & fears surrounding these individuals & will sign off by saying I would trust any person with learning difficulties ahead of your average person any day of the week. Many do not have the capacity to be deceitful or cause trouble. I wish that could be said for some plot holders I have met.

[cptncrackoff]

Kevin, I think the issue maybe that yourself, and alldigging may have different ideas on the term 'learning difficulties' and what that means..

From my own opinion, and thats all it is..

The phrase 'learning difficulties', to me could represent so many different conditions, and many, many different levels of capabilities.
I must admit, I dont have many people with learning difficulties in my life, so I'm not as qualified as you to make any judgement calls, but i would guess that relatively mild learning difficulties would lead to few problems in an allotment environment, but also that on the other end of the spectrum very severe learning difficulties, would be very difficult to accommodate, lets say on my allotment site.

But as the OP says, its a private piece of land rather than a 'traditional' allotment with the rules and regs.

I dont think this is the best place for the OP to get the answers they really are searching for.

I also really dont think alldigging is being discriminatory or prejudiced, but genuinely trying to offer advice which after all is what the forum is for.

Please dont take this a any sort of attack, or critiscism of yourself, I have the greatest respect for people who help others and genuinely make a difference to peoples lives.

[KevinM67]

No Kevin .. 'A normal single plotholder' is NOT what you quoted, single was not mentioned ... http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gra...ml#post1415923

like I said previously, re-read ALL the post

Yep, after re-reading that particular post - then I admit I am wrong. I apologise.

But.....

I'll stand by point with regards calling out on prejudice, discrimination, misconceptions, etc. - I'll await those particular posts that have verged on those areas to be highlighted.

[alldigging]

Alldigging - I've cropped a large part of your post because I agree with you. Allotment Associations need to decide whether to accept 'organisations' as tenants because there are added complications. This goes for accepting the local scouts group/brownies or any other other organisation. There are insurance implications - but I've covered that in previous posts.

However, the part of your post I've kept which doesn't make sense.
We are talking about learning difficulties (what level of difficulty nobody knows ? )
What need for raised beds, level solid paths and rest facilities would someone with a learning disability really require ?

Edit to add - I've no idea what relevance bad weather or a 'big responsibility of an allotment' means.

I know some people with learning difficulties that also have physical handicaps that come as part of their condition. They would struggle physically to dig but could manage light work on raised beds. Another lad I know loves to garden but again has physically different needs.

Untended plots are one of the big problems facing allotment sites all over the country. Often the weather gets blamed, but when there's only one or two plots untended then it's not that.
If the person who will be coming all the time with the group is really keen then that's fine, but if it's just a flash idea then it's not going to last. The big responsibility is that someone has to be responsible for the plot - you can't measure how keen someone is instantly. You can see how keen they appear to be.

A group contacted us about wanting a plot but it turned out after a few months of them not responding to invites to visit that they actually wanted something they could visit every month. You can't tend an allotment properly in an hour a month.
Maybe this group is more dedicated and actually wants an allotment.

If this group is next on the waiting list then the sanctity of the list needs to be followed, but with an individual perhaps taking on the responsibility for the group's plot.

[Alison]

Agree totally VC and I'm sure that everybody will be treated fairly and equally

[KevinM67]

Yep, your right VC - sorry.