Blossom Dates - A Catalogue

**boundtothesoil** · 03-04-2013, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by Garden_Chris View Post

Date of ~100% Blossom

I think this sounds very useful and I'll send my results in one go at the end of the blossom period.

MAFF used to publish a technical bulletin (no.26) called 'Flowering Periods of Tree and Bush Fruits' with lists of average flowering dates for hundreds of varieties. But they have probably stopped this long ago. The way they did it was to record dates of 'first flower', 'full flower' and 'end of flowering'. I mention this as there may be a problem assessing '100% Blossom', in so far as by the time the last of the flowers have opened, the first have lost their petals. Hence, on a large tree you will never actually see 100% blossom open on a particular date.

In the MAFF bulletin there is a graph showing the % of total flowers that are 'open but with no fallen petals' over time (17 days in total), for Cox's Orange in 1959! Surprisingly the peak value is only around 45% of the total flowers on the tree. You see what I mean

MAFF takes this peak value as the 'full flower ' date.

I suppose what I'm saying is that you might be better asking for some kind of 'peak open blossom date' rather than 100% blossom ? On the other hand others here may know of better approaches.

**Garden_Chris** · 04-04-2013, 11:59 AM

Sounds good.
I'll update the original post with
First Blossom
Full Blossom
End of flowering

Looks to be a better indicator of what to expect, thanks for the tip.

**FB.** · 05-04-2013, 09:05 AM

There isn't a perfect approach, so we do the best we can.

Some varieties are more variable in flowering than others - "chill requirements" affect some varieties more than others. Mild spring weather can compress the flowering dates to the point where most flower at the same time, while cooler springs can result in some being completely finished flowering before others begin.
Further complicating things is that some varieties have one great burst of blossom virtually all at once, while others open a few blossoms at a time for weeks on end - in my experience, James Grieve*, Bountiful*, Jumbo** and Pinova** behave like this. (* = considered to be excellent pollinators) (** = triploid or presumed triploid; considered to be poor pollinators).

**yummersetter** · 05-04-2013, 02:29 PM

I have a japanese plum, Satsuma, that's been in flower since the third week in January and is still opening a few new flower buds. You'd think that would cover lots of other plums' flowering periods but this year all the rest are hunkered down with their buds clenched tight. I reckon every fruit tree will flower at the same time, in about four weeks, this year, just hope the last remaining bees can hang on till then.
I always note the first green leaf and the first open flower in my orchard book.

**FB.** · 05-04-2013, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by yummersetter View Post

I reckon every fruit tree will flower at the same time.

Might end up with a few hybrids.

It is thought that apples are a hybrid species from two members of the rose family - the combination of one Rosaceae with eight pairs of chromosomes and one Rosaceae with nine pairs. Apples, of course, have 17 pairs (i.e. they're virtually a tetraploid rose).

We already have a number of blackberry/raspberry hybrids and gooseberry/currant hybrids.

**orangepippin** · 06-04-2013, 10:24 AM

Our online fruit tree register already allows you to record flowering details for individual trees. For example here is a map of Bramley apple trees registered on our website in the UK:

Map of website visitor's fruit trees

And here is one of my own records for a Chivers Delight apple tree:
Details of a Chivers Delight fruit tree growing in YORK United Kingdom

We are also in the process of extending the season record to include pest and disease details etc.

**boundtothesoil** · 06-04-2013, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by Garden_Chris View Post

if there is already a thread going with this information then just shout out and merge/delete this one.

Given that orangepippin's site is a definitive data set with a lot of contributors, in my opinion maybe it is the best repository for this kind of information. Setting up a separate data set on the grapes site might only bring in a handful of 'devoted' contributors. Although, I could have vastly underestimated the enthusiasm for it.
I would still be very happy to contribute, but I am also going to enter my trees into orangepippin's data set.

It would be interesting to know if there was scope for 'playing' about with the blossom data on orange pippin's site, i.e. looking for regional/climatic/soil impacts on blossom dates. This kind of exercise will no longer be performed by DEFRA as they simply don't have the resources/interest/ experimental horticultural farms anymore! Such patterns established in the middle of the 20thC might no longer be entirely relevant now due to changing climate etc.

**orangepippin** · 06-04-2013, 02:05 PM

Our tree register does not cover all the varieties in garden_chris's original list, although it is likely we will extend it if the interest is there.

We haven't done much aggregate analysis of the tree register data yet, but we are starting to realise there is a lot of potential, and we have been adding more data fields at the suggestion of existing contributors.

However one interesting theory that is starting to emerge is that the bloom period from the earliest to latest variety (e.g. for apples) may be compressed in areas with continental climates and extended for areas with temperate climates. I think the data used in many textbooks derives from research done in Kent, which has a temperate climate, and the earliest blooming apples will not overlap with the latest ones. In continental climates, i.e. much of central north America, it is either winter or summer - spring is merely a brief interlude. In these climates there can be more overlap between varieties in different flowering groups. This may be something we need to take into account in our online pollination checker.

It is possible that spring 2013 in the UK will be more like a continental spring, since winter has stayed late in many areas and when spring does finally arrive things should happen very quickly.

**FB.** · 24-04-2013, 10:53 AM

Doyenne d'Ete on Pyrodwarf rootstock has about 10% of blossoms open today.

Conference on Quince A rootstock has a few blossoms open - should be at the 10% stage within a few days.

Doyenne d'Ete on seedling rootstock also has a few blossoms open and should reach the 10% stage within a few days.

*
Yes, I have two Doyenne d'Ete pears because in my soil and climate they are the finest of all the mid-summer fruits (contrary to some growers who describe the fruit as flavourless), and Doyenne d'Ete doesn't suffer from any of the bitter pit or codling moth/maggot problems which plague many of the Beauty of Bath/Discovery/Scrumptious mid-summer apple types.

**greenjelly** · 25-04-2013, 07:09 PM

Is Spring coming or not

This sounds a brilliant idea - I will post my results at the end in one go I think.

I've got x3 new apple trees so will be removing all the blossom - but I will record the dates before doing so.

Our neighbours have a large, ancient cherry tree in full blossom although a similiar tree in our garden is no where near having blossom and as far as I can remember they blossomed at the same time the last 2 years - their tree is more exposed than ours though - any thoughts?

We don't have anything even looking like it might blossom anytime soon although the fruit bushes do seem to have suddenly become covered in leaves rather than being brown sticks.

Greenjelly

**FB.** · 26-04-2013, 11:11 AM

Doyenne d'Ete on Pyrodwarf with 10% blossom open on 24th April; full flower will be any day now.
Conference on Quince A with 10% blossom open on 26th April.
Doyenne d'Ete on seedling with 10% open on 26th April.

Williams on Quince A should be at 10% within a day or two; Concorde on Quince A probably a few days after that.

Of the apples, Pinova on M26 looks closest to the 10% open stage at the moment; the first few flowers are opening, but this variety (for me at least) seems to have a long slow flowering period; a few flowers open at a time - rarely reaching a state of "full blossom" because the first flowers have usually lost their petals of even become fruitlets by the time the last flowers start to open.

**yummersetter** · 26-04-2013, 10:32 PM

Nearly there - first to flower will be the Somerset Golden Russet

Attached Files

GoldenRusset0323.jpg (0, 116 views)

**yummersetter** · 26-04-2013, 10:34 PM

On the other hand, the Satsuma Japanese plum by the front door started flowering 24th January and is still going strong

Attached Files

JRL250413i321.jpg (0, 146 views)

**Garden_Chris** · 27-04-2013, 06:46 AM

Updated original list with a few updates of my own and others.

Just on a side note, I'm amazed at my nectarine tree - we've actually got some fruit set on almost every branch! Just hoping the same will be true of my peach tree, that still has a few flowers left on it.

Also, funnily enough, the one year old Apricot (Tomcot, VVA-1), has just one sad lonely flower on it.

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Blossom Dates - A Catalogue

Blossom Dates - A Catalogue

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