Premature Bolting of Shallots

[wellie]

Hello....
This is one of those 'enquiries' where people think it's actually ME that wants a solution to my 'problem'? just like Doctor, my friend has this terrible 'problem'....
But I promise you, I'm actually doing a 'neighbourly bit'. Elderly Next Door has for 'Donkeys Years' saved his own Shallots to put into the ground the following year, and the year after, and then ad infinitum (sp?) and last year they did look sick, and he probably had a quarter of them 'bolt' early. However, this year, and we're only just the first week in June, virtually half of them are 'bolting' and look very stunted and 'yellow-tipped'.

I've 'tentatively' suggested that it might be worth him starting off with 'fresh stock' next year. Has his 'saved' stock run out of steam and/or developed a virus ?, and could it spread to his onions?

Or worse, mine!

Maybe armed with a little more information/knowledge from you guys, I may be able to 'creep in undetected' and help him somehow from the rear.
(Although I do doubt it. He turned 85 on Sunday, as he's still as sharp as a bloody razor, wounding me with his wit every five minutes of every day!, but hey, he 'gets as good back', with knobs on....)

But I'd love it if I could help him somehow..... Can you help?

[Alice]

Sorry Wellie, don't know anything about this for sure. All I know is if you inbreed generation after generation you get idiots and every inherited disease going. Suppose the same would be true for plants. But it''s not smittle (infectious) so think your plants should be OK.
Try persuading him that the plants are cousins. I think he'll understand that.
But maybe the problem lies elsewhere.

[wellie]

Alice,

I wish I hadn't asked now!

Elderly Next Door is a 'Gentleman' of the first order, and certainly not an idiot,
and to my knowledge, wouldn't take too kindly to your 'cousin' theory.....!
But I DO get your drift....

It's more than possible that he's tried to keep the same 'strain' of shallot going for far too long?

Certainly, he won't have fed the soil, other than pigeon manure, soot or woodash in the 58 years he's lived there, so maybe that should be taken into account....

He follows a strict crop rotation schedule too. Every inch of his garden is vegetables, and no one same crop appears in the same spot for at least three years.

For those of you growers that do have experience of onions and shallots, could you shed any significant light here?
I'd be eternally grateful.
He's just turned 85, and if we've no solution before his 86th, I can see a 'Victor Meldrew' coming on......

[Alice]

Jings Wellie, how do people read things - or how do we write them. I certainly wasn't suggesting that your neighbour was an inbred idiot - more that his shallots were. Sincere apologies for any misundersting. Mabe I shouldn't have said such a thing - even about a shallot. Apologies again.

[Hazel at the Hill]

Hee hee! Alice, worry not, Wellie won't be in one jot offended - just the opposite and will be very pleased for your advice - so please keep it coming! - she does hold you in great esteem, dont'cha know!

Mean while, my shallottless one .... as you know, I know nothing (mr fawlty!) but think that Alice is on to a good'un with the 'inbred' theory - Nick will tell you more on 'inbreds' and 'outbreds', but I think a 'change of stock' will do Elderly Next Doors shallots a treat....?

That is assuming that the Great Eelworm Plague from Sutton Coldfield hasn't spread..........!

[Hazel at the Hill]

Oh! I've had an idea of my own! Well, of the other plotholders, really...

At the Hill (besides the eekworm!) we've had lots of autumn sown onion and shallots bolt and the clever peeps say it's because we had the v hot and dry weather and then lots of rain............

[Paulottie]

Howdo y'all..love it ...hillbilly shallots!

There are a few diseases of onions that can stay in the soil more than three years. Could also be mildew? Also, if the strain is diseased maybe he's moving it about with his stock but then would they store to survive as sets? unlikely. Tools and boots are more likely to spread it but i find shallots more disease resistant than other alliums -so if you have disease it is likely to show in onions first. rust in garlic and leeks etc.

They are normally harvested at midsummer but this year everything is a bit early-not just ready are they?

It is rare for my shallots to bolt, but it sounds like the cause might be irregular water this year.

[Snadger]

Reading through past threads I think this has beeen a common theme throughout the allium family this year. I tried an experiment this year with shop bought shallots(Tesco's), proper shallots from Garden Centre and my own that I saved from last year. I have had a few go to seed, but it was only from the Tesco experiment.
As you know, the north East of England is the home of the giant leek, another allium. The strain for these is kept going through vegetatative reproduction each year (collecting 'pods' or 'grass' from seed heads) but after a few years a new start has to be made with fresh seed because of inbreeding problems. If the guy wanted to keep the 'strain' of shallot, without worrying too much about inbreeding, he could use self saved seed next year instead of sets I suppose.

[Flummery]

I would have thought that saving the seed of an early bolting, weakened strain would keep the problem going Snadger. I think fresh stock is the answer. However, the thought occurs (one does every now and then if I'm not careful!) - how do the propper plant breeders do it? They save their sets? Save seed? Cross breed and swap? Interesting ain't it?

PS I knew what you meant about idiot shallots Alice, a good analogy - and even my good ones aren't all that bright!

[wellie]

Alice, What a 'Hoot' ! Here I was thinking you were being funny, and making witty reference to 'twelve-toes' humour, and you thought I was being serious... I'm SO sorry, the apology should come from me. I know you to be a kind and thoughtful person, and it would never enter my head that you would imply that in a serious tone for one minute. My apologies to you Alice.

And I am taking in everything that is being said on the subject, thank you all for your helpful comments.

It's not that he's trying to keep this particular strain of shallot going for any reason, just that he has always saved his own for replanting. They definitely aren't 'ready' kind of yellowing of leaves, it's just the tips yellow, and very stunted growth, with seedheads appearing.

It could be weather-related, but I'm not convinced....

[Headfry]

ekk- me shallots and onions are the same! ...slow to grow and yellow tipped, they are from new sets! you say mildew? but there is no white 'stuff' on them, yellow tips just get dry and papery

[Snadger]

I would have thought that saving the seed of an early bolting, weakened strain would keep the problem going Snadger. I think fresh stock is the answer. However, the thought occurs (one does every now and then if I'm not careful!) - how do the propper plant breeders do it? They save their sets? Save seed? Cross breed and swap? Interesting ain't it?

PS I knew what you meant about idiot shallots Alice, a good analogy - and even my good ones aren't all that bright!

Is there a shallot that grows normally and forms a seed head then flum? If the strain of shallot was inherited from his great grandad or something and had sentimental value for instance, then the only way to keep that strain without vegetative reproduction, and regression, is through seed formation.
Being that a shallot doesn't seem to be a biennial like most other alliums ( ie replanting of this years corms to make next years crop is an accepted method of propagation, rather than a way of growing for seed), the only way to get any seed is from shallot plants that bolt!
Hopefully this seed would be taken from plants that bolted late in the season so that no inherant traits were saved!

It appears that the shallots are not a rare breed and there is no sentimental value attached to them so it would be advisable to start again with certified stock!

[Flummery]

I can't see why you'd want seed actually. I've never had one bolt so you'd have to be particularly mean and nasty to it to make it think it's going extinct!
See what you mean Snadger. New stock, deffo!

[Snadger]

I can't see why you'd want seed actually. I've never had one bolt so you'd have to be particularly mean and nasty to it to make it think it's going extinct!
See what you mean Snadger. New stock, deffo!

Fancy........ calling Pigletwillie 'mean and nasty' (think about it!) Lol

[Flummery]

I think you must be talking about the banana shallots? Before my time here actually, though I've seen the thread. Was he the one who was nasty to them, or did someone else do the deed and give him the seed?