Grow Your Own Magazine

Hi this may appear thick but the books keep saying "When fermentation is complete" - How do you know when it is complete?
Am online now for any speedy answers.
Cheers Steve.

__________________
Steve & Julie

Fermentation has stopped when the SG measurement is the same for 2 days in a row and there are no bubbles passing through the airlock. SG will usually be below 1.0 at this point but that depends on the starting SG

__________________
Happy Gardening,
Shirley

http://www.honeyjukes.co.uk

Good luck. I hope you don't make a 'fist' of it

__________________
~ What do I think of Western civilisation? I think it would be a very good idea ~ Gandhi

I've been having fun with the fermentation mystery too. I started making wine for the first time last summer and in September made some raspberry. I was hoping to bottle it about now as I figured it MUST have stopped fermenting after so many months. I swapped the airlock for a solid bung (can't remember precisely why!) and am glad I checked it as when I took the bung out a few days later it came with an almighty POP! I gather from this that it is quite definitely still fermenting (solid bung swapped back for an airlock!). Can't see any bubbles though even after staring myself dry-eyed gawping at it for long periods. Will have to get the hydrometer out and be technical, I guess. Perhaps it was the cold winter: the average (indoor) temperature in my flat between October and March is 10 degrees centigrade. And no, I don't have an airing cupboard. The warmest place is in bed and I'm not sure I'm going to resort to sleeping with my demijohns! Perhaps the wine went into hibernation and only just woke up... Otherwise I was relying on lots of months and several rackings to have gone by to know that it had stopped fermenting. Ah well. Scientific method wins...

The pop could have been caused by a build up of gas. Give the demijohn a good shake or stir and repeat until the bubbles disappear quickly then leave it to clear. It will clear more rapidly after degassing as the gasses hold particles in suspension giving a cloudy appearance.

__________________
Happy Gardening,
Shirley

http://www.honeyjukes.co.uk

The yeast MIGHT have hibernated, but should have finished by now. Not sure whether raspberries contain malic acid, but anything which DOES can re-ferment quite a while after the normal fermentation has finished. The Malo-lactic fermentation is why you sometimes get an unexpected sparkling apple wine......

__________________
Flowers come in too many colours to see the world in black-and-white.

I was trawling through some wine-making forums yesterday (found you, Shirlthegirl, on one of them!) and noticed that quite a few of them mentioned "degassing". I've not come across this in any of the books I've read; is it something that should become part of the wine-making routine as a kind of safety thing? When's the best time to get a-shaking or a-stirring? I also have some bramble that seems to be in the same position as the raspberry. Don't fancy any more glass bombs (am still clearing up after the ginger beer). I've heard of the malo-lactic fermentation (made some cider last autumn); does that just need more time to finish? Neither wine is particularly cloudy. Ta muchly for the advice! Summer temperature in my flat is a whopping 14 or 15 degrees centigrade (I only have to wear one woolly jumper with my grass skirt; after all, it feels tropical after the winter. Possibly not ideal for winemaking though...). 13 gallons on the go at the moment, quite a lot of them made towards the end of last year and at the beginning of this year. I've been leaving them for ages just in case the cold did get to them but if degassing can move things along a bit then I'm all for that!

I usually degas the wine when it has finished fermenting and before leaving it to clear. You can rack off the worst of the lees then give the fresh dj a few good shakes and then leave it to settle.

Any gas left in the wine will give it a nasty 'sharp' taste in the mouth. If your wine tastes a bit unpleasant, put some into a bottle and cover the bottle top with your hand, shake and see if the wine 'fizzes' and you feel a pressure build up, if so, release the pressure then repeat the shaking until the fizzing and pressure stop. Taste the wine again and see if there is a difference - there usually will be if the problems are due to gas in the wine.

__________________
Happy Gardening,
Shirley

http://www.honeyjukes.co.uk

It's not only the wine that's clearing; small areas of my brain are doing the same. Ta mucho!

Funny thing- I am sure there is NO mention of degassing in CJJ's book.
Thanks for all the above help from me too
HF

When you are checking for further bubbles by the way, you usally move the demi johns into somewhere warmer for a few days before hand, to see if the warmer conditions ecourage any more fermentation.

Enjoy the wine when it's ready!

__________________
Douglas

http://www.myvegetablegarden.co.uk/ - under construction

LOADS of bubbles in the raspberry wine (had to give up shaking in the end because it was exhausting me!). No, I've not seen degassing mentioned in the wine books I have (though CJJ Berry does suggest agitating the wine, but without going into detail). So glad I didn't bottle it. No chance of me putting the wine in a warm place because 15 degrees centigrade is as hot as my flat gets! Will keep shaking another day!

Just be aware that it will always bubble when you shake it - try shaking a bottle of tap water - if the bubbles vanish again really quickly then you have degassed enough.

__________________
Happy Gardening,
Shirley

http://www.honeyjukes.co.uk

Thanks for all your tips Shirley. You make far more sense than my books!
HF
x

No problem Headfry, I have just been there and done that a bit is all

Now off to try and photograph the lovely bees on my honeysuckle - some of them have ever such long 'noses' and I want a picture so I can ask you what sort they are

__________________
Happy Gardening,
Shirley

http://www.honeyjukes.co.uk

The bubbles were still enough to force the bung out after each shaking - I didn't even have to try and remove it, just make sure my hand was over the top so it didn't ricochet off anything valuable! Not sure tap water would have quite that rocket effect. Will try when I get home for a "compare and contrast" session. Ta for all the advice. Oh, and any excuse for a slurp in the aid of tasting...

WOW, if it has that much fizz maybe you have indeed had malo-wotsit fermentation and have made a 'champagne style' brew. How does it taste?

__________________
Happy Gardening,
Shirley

http://www.honeyjukes.co.uk

Is the reason the books don't mention de gassing because they all say to leave the wine under airlock for up to 18 months changing the demijohn every three months or so?
Would the gas dissapate over this length of time?
Would love to know the answer to this one, as my first wine was... less good due to the gas flavour. I did de gas ater i had bottled once i realised there was an issue, and found that with plastic bottles if you squeeze the bottle before putting the lid on, you cause a bit of a vacume so it encourages the gas out of the wine. This is after i tired of shaking...

__________________
Simon Of Kells

I think that racking will have a degassing effect to some extent, but if it can be done with less wastage of wine..... I can't say I ever left wine for prolonged periods under an airlock after it no longer showed signs of fermenting. Racking according to clearing progress, and if not fermenting, and REALLY clear, into the bottles. Never caused any bother in my 'cellar'.

__________________
Flowers come in too many colours to see the world in black-and-white.

Well, the wine is beautifully clear, has no sediment at all and has had two rackings since last September...but is still fizzing and popping its bung . If this is malo-lactic doo-dah does this mean I have to bottle it in champagne-style bottles? I've only got one (don't drink much of the cork-popping stuff). Might have to loiter with intent near the recycling bins or find a friendly barman. As for the taste, at the last racking in June I wrote "very tasty" in my what-am-I-doing wine log so it can't have been too bad. (Though not as good as my variation on CJJ's English port; drank all the left-over top-up bottles in one rather large glass in one rather large sitting . And that's only had one racking!)

If my memory serves me,doesn't Mr Berry advocate a campden tablet to stop wines fizzing? though not sure why you would want too.

Not sure I fancy adding anything extra to the wine unless absolutely necessary. I have no objections to a lightly sparkling wine (even a pink one!) but I do have slight reservations over exploding bottles. STILL finding bits of ginger beer bottle in the most unlikely (and high up) places...

Plastic bottles are less drastic if they do explode, and if you look at them often, you will see whether they are 'growing' and need pressure reduced (not tried that one myself yet, but those on here who have sound convincing)......I tend to add syrup to 'top up' after every racking. Sooner or later the yeast 'drowns' in the resulting alcohol. You can sometimes get sherry strength that way. My first year elderflower (2 years ago) has turned out like a 'pale-cream sherry' with elderflower scent. We both love it (and my OH is not usually a fan of sweet wines).......
Now wondering why it took me so long to try elderflower. It's well worth the trouble. Maybe NEXT year we will find enough really nice dandelions to do that again......

__________________
Flowers come in too many colours to see the world in black-and-white.

Ooh, and I've got three gallons of elderflower on the go at the moment!