Grow Your Own Magazine

Recently a sad and pointless tragedy occurred which I wanted to share with you in the hope that someone, somewhere will benefit from this post.

As you know we are living between France and England at the moment, and after weeks of searching, found an honest,reliable, hard-working man to help out with our garden/lottie / DIY jobs as and when needed.

This jolly,active man's hobby ( he's 65) is disco dancing and he's been doing it several times a week for several years and is very popular with his dancing buddies.
However , a few weeks ago he collapsed on the dance floor and an ambulance was sent for. When they arrived they realised he'd not been breathing nor had a heart beat for 9 minutes following a heart attack.
No one had checked if he'd been breathing or had a pulse in all the time they were waiting for the medical crew.
Brain damage occurs after 5 minutes.

What I'm trying to say is that I'm stunned that no-one did anything for him. Even if we're not trained to do CPR , we've all watched ER.
I can understand not wanting to do mouth to mouth, but simple chest compressions.....
It wasn't like he was a stranger either.

This guy is still in hospital learning to walk again and only partly recognises some family members. All because his brain was starved of oxygen. He'll never work or dance again.

I then started thinking that those of us with lotties talk quite a bit about the 'oldies ' on the sites...I suppose a similar situation could occur there and we might be the only person to hand.

So , I wondered how many of you would have known what to do in such a situation?

I was trained in CPR many years ago and have actually successfully used it for 15 minutes until the ambulance crew took over- and the guy survived with no brain damage.Technique seems to change every few years- which tells me that any method is better than nothing.

I know there are several highly trained medical staff on the Vine who could point us in the right direction for learning CPR.

I just can't get over the waste of my disco dancing 'friend's ' quality of life.

That is awful, although I don't really understand why anyone one would rather watch someone die than give mouth to mouth!
There does seem to be an enormous amount of apathy around these days, or just a general feeling of 'it's none of my business'. Maybe a few more public information type ads on the television or a cash reward for those who have helped would be a start?
I hope he makes a good recovery.


Edit - I just thought of that case where a fireman jumped into a quarry lake and saved a boy from drowning - and was reprimanded for it.............

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Tx

My otherwise healthy brother died in his sleep from a heart attack aged 31 - there was no opportunity for anyone to do anything.

It is even more sad that when there are other people on scene still they don't know what to do. I'd urge everyone to take at least a basic first aid course. I was still using the skills I learnt at Brownies aged 8 until I took new courses as an adult - you never forget these life saving skills.

The Rotary Club have been raising money to place defibrillators in public places and train people to use them and CPR - if you find a course in your area please take the time to do it. And don't be afraid to get involved...it might make all the difference.

I hope your friend gets all the rehabilitation help he needs and gets back some quality of life.

What type of person would stand by and watch this poor man slowly die. What were they doing finishing off the dance, what a complete bunch of muppets Bit early in the morning for me to have a rant but....

Rant aside, I do not have a lot of first aid training (in work it is a case of calling the first aider) but I could never stand by (and never have done).

If you are still in contact with the gentleman or his family, may I suggest Headway. Headway is the UK's brain injury charity and can provide valuable support in the trying times ahead. Apoxia (sp?) can cause multiple problems. I cannot recommend Headway highly enough - hubby has a brain injury. Hospital may not provide info on Headway

Snowdrop says when he was taught compression speed etc - it was to 'Nellie the elephant packed her trunk and off she went....etc' - for 15 reps then two blows into mouth. It may well have changed now but it worked when he started out as a copper.

Good post Nicos

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Suzie

Thats awful. As I work in the care sector over the years I have done the first aid at work course several times. Never had to use CPR but have used hinlick(excuse spelling) for choking on two occassions on same person and blood loss control on one who in fit of anger put his fists through a window. Both young adults with learning difficulties as well as about 10 years ago assisting a man who had an epileptic seizure in the street people were trying to put things in his mouth as his breathing was strange!!!! When I arrived a crowd of about thirty people all with no clue!!!
My biggest gripe at the moment is that I work in homecare my certificate has run out and am still waiting to go on another course!!! This company don't like paying for training , needless to say am looking for another job!!
It won't stop me using first aid even though I was warned by last instructor that you shouldn't use it at work if your cert. has run out and to always have witnesses watching what your doing at work or when dealing with members of the public, why? In case they sue you later!!

I suspect it was not a case of watching him die, but of not realising the danger, not checking breathing or pulse and the general feeling that the ambulance is on it's way so it's 'over to you, lads'. The real tragedy is that people don't realise how short a time is needed for the brain to be starved of oxygen and the point of no return to be reached.

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Earth laughs in flowers. Ralph Waldo Emerson

www.vegheaven.blogspot.com

Updated November 30th - Mr Stinky's Excellent Adventure (and a Christmas Cake)

I had First Aid and CPR training about 20 years ago. I've used the recovery position several times, but I was most grateful for it when I found my friend collapsed after an accidental overdose (long story), she stopped breathing several times while waiting for the ambulance & if I hadn't had the training I'd have panicked & she'd probably not be here now.
I should probably update the skills, but it isn't cheap to do a course.

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Sarah

“Tell me one last thing,” said Harry. “Is this real? Or has this been happening inside my head?”
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?”

Our local council runs on every so often its a real basic one but would save lifes. Unfortunately it wouldn't cover me for using at work!! strange but true!!

I heard somewhere that standard chest compressions are now taught instead of mouth-to-mouth, is this true?

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Gary

When i id the course lasttime about four years ago it was two breaths and 15 compressions dont see that changing as doing the mounth to mouth part is the part that gives oxygen and compression helps to massage heart to keep blood going through its the lack of oxygen that will kill first the changes were around how you tip head back and checking finger nail beds colour as well as checking pulse as often pulse has slowed so much its har to find but nail beds may still have colour

I trained in CPR and then took the further course to become a CPR/defibrillator trainer.
Current guidelines last I heard in 2007 were 30 chest compressions to 2 breaths repeated till ambulance arrives. (and yes, I also use the Nellie the Elephant for the rhythmn and counting, except you have to do it twice to get your 30 !!)

I'm a firm believer that basic CPR should be taught in schools as part of the curriculum - children of 10/11 are able to understand and do it.

Have used CPR once (sadly the man didn't survive as he went into heart failure) and the recovery position quite a few times.

Red Cross do courses, as do organisations such as Heartstart or British Heart Foundation.

Latest I heard is that chest compressions are MUCH more urgent than breathing, because there is quite a bit of oxygen 'left over' in the blood stream so getting the blood to the brain is more urgent than getting more oxygen into the blood. An acquaintance on another forum is a 'First responder' and mentioned this idea for the half-trained/untrained person hoping to assist in severe emergency.

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Flowers come in too many colours to see the world in black-and-white.

I found this on You tube!...

YouTube - How to do CPR on an adult

I completed me first hit of first aid last year, i have a refresher every 3 years, for work, it is now 30 compressions and then 2 breaths, everyone should do first aid.

when my son was 8 days old he stopped breathing, if it wasnt for my OH he would dead now! i hadnt done my first aid by then, but soon did.

My husband was the first aider at work and has had 2 people die on him, whilst he was doing CPR, not a nice thing to happen, but at least he tried.

I also think every new mother & father should be given basic first aid instruction, they could do this when they have their antenatal courses, it would only take a few hours to teach and could save lives.

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Gardening - A labour of love that begins with daybreak and ends with backache!
http://clarkiesveggieblog.blogspot.com/

When I did my First Aid at Work refresher course in June this year the trainer did say that the thinking is now that the oxygen in the blood is sufficient to kep the brain ticking over. Compressions are necessary if the heart has stopped to keep the blood circulating so that the oxygen is getting to the vital organs.

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Even aliens garden!

Over the years I've done various courses and thankfully have never been called upon to do anything major. In fact, I worked at a school where taking the St. Johns Ambulance Basic First Aid Certificate was part of life studies for staff and students. This was a smart move really as it meant all staff and students above year 8 had formal training in first aid. However, my daughter, who was 12 at the time, was coming home from her school on the bus when the girl sitting next to her started choking after the top off her sports bottle came off and lodged in her throat. She had the presence of mind to get the girl on her feet, loosen her tie and perform the heinlich manouvre on her which dislodged the top from her throat, all before the bus stopped and while everyone else was either screaming or panicking or both. Naturally, we were very proud of her but puzzled as to our knowledge she had never been taught any first aid. When we asked her how she knew what to do, her reply was "I saw it on Discovery Kids". Despite a pleading letter and complaints, it still hasn't been reinstated as part of the Sky package.

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TGR

I was taught, Nelly the Elephant for the speed of compressions too, the guy teaching who is a first responder, said the compressions kept the heart full of blood so that a defribillator could work, apparently without blood in the heart there is nothing to re-start. He also said how critical it was not to stop the compressions until the first responder/paramedic says he is ready to take over, as it takes time to charge the defibrellator and get all the necessary equipment ready. He said the number of times people see him arrive and suddenly stop!!

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Lumpyjumper

http://lumpyjumpers.blogspot.com

updated I've got my lottie!!

Ten years ago whilst out shopping in Exeter my mother in law didnt feel very well and wanted to get out of the shop she was in, a female worker at the store saw what was happening and persuaded her to sit down and she called an ambulance, they gave mil something ( cant remember what ) and it saved her life. She was having a major heart attack, had she been at home she probably would have gone to bed and if she had she would most definitly died.
So whoever it was in the large department store if it wasnt for your actions thank you she would not have seen my daughter grow into a twelve year old nor see her two great grandaughters.

Aw, what a lovely story, Jackie!

I've been a qualified First Aider since the age of 7 (am now 31) and it changes every time I refresh!

As others have said, it's now 30 compressions to 2 breaths, due to the importance of blood circulating oxygen. We were also taught to do compressions even if there is a pulse. In fact, we were told that in an unknown situation, we shouldn't even check for a pulse, as research shows that you cannot do any harm compressing a working heart.

I think first aid should be taught in schools, right form the very start so that it becomes second nature!
What is it with the world today...

I have to do a yearly CPR update for my job (within the NHS). When I did it last year, it was 30 compressions to 2 breaths. This year (in July) it was compressions only for up to 5 minutes (after checking that the airway is clear) and then you can choose whether or not to give breaths. The reason they gave for only doing compressions was that there is enough oxygen in the blood stream and a small amount will be taken into the lungs because of the compressions. The also emphasised that it is your choice whether or not to give mouth to mouth after 5 mins. Some people may be reluctant to do it because of the risk of infection to themselves, and also if the patient has been sick it may put people off. A few days after the course I was on a train to Edinburgh to visit my parents and a passenger brought the guards attention to a man who wouldn't wake up. There was a bit of confusion as no-one knew him or how long he had been collapsed (it was a Friday evening commuter train, lots of people nod off after a long week at work), but it turned out that he had stopped breathing and his heart had stopped. One of the other passengers said that she thought she could feel a pulse and the guard phoned 999 and got advice from them to start cpr (compressions only). The ambulance crew arrived within a couple of minutes of us arriving at the next station and they immediately intubated him and continued CPR. I did feel that I should/could have done something, but because of the confusion and nobody actually asking for help I did not realise what was happening until the guard started CPR. Hopefully he was OK.